clicking and stalling on a 1988 Gran Fury.

M Body General Discussion

  1. IndieDippy

    IndieDippy Well-Known Member

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    anyone have tips for driving in winter? i've let her sit for a good 5 minutes warming up but i get a good but of what i guess is called "surging". the car goes "vrooom...vrooom...vrooom" over and over again making it hard to get up to speed. what is a good amount of time to warm it up. winter has only just started and this is my only car so i kinda have to drive it in winter, though i plan to avoid the salt any way i can.
     
  2. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Vacuum gauge, timing light and my little pocket screwdriver are probably my most used tools at this point of owning my fifth ave. Carbs can have noticeable performance changes every time temps go up or down 15 degrees or more so, could just need an adjustment. If you notice the car’s having a hard time warming up as temps lower, put a hotter running thermostat in the car that doesn’t open till like 190degrees before it gets too cold out so you’re not doing it in the snow later on lol
    I run my car in Chicago during the winter without issue. If ignition,fuel, cooling, vacuum are all working right, you’ll be solid. Just do a legit tune up and see what results you get and go from there.

    Edit:
    I’m also pro lean burn delete. It was already done on my car when I bought it but, I’ve also never had the ignition/fuel/carb issues people with the lean burn system do...these things could be completely unrelated lolJEGS 40500K2: Mopar Ignition Kit Fits Small Block Mopar "LA" Engine 273/318/340/360 | JEGS
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  3. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    A few recommendations:
    - Use only 100% gasoline, if possible. Even if you have a computer-controlled carburetor, it still can not adjust for the difference and you will have several drivability issues. Also, the Ethanol is not good on most of the fuel parts, anyway.

    If you must get Ethanol, only get a couple of gallons so you can fill up at a place selling 100% gasoline. No source of 100% gasoline, then you might want to invest into a 4-bbl appearing (or 2-bbl appearing) fuel injection setup - which can accommodate Ethanol.

    - The choke thermostat is a bimetallic spring that has a 10 to 20-year lifespan. If yours hasn’t been changed (which I would assume, if it had been changed, its due for replacement again) then I would do so, again. It bolts to the intake manifold and has a rod going to top of passenger side of carburetor. If you can’t find a new choke thermostat, let me know for I can get you pointed into the right direction.
    Choke Thermostat.jpg

    - Check for vacuum leaks. Check for missing or improperly routed vacuum hoses. If you had the computer removed or other modifications, that might require a bit of detective work. You might be surprised on how something like a split vacuum hose can cause the amount of problems that it does.

    - The carburetor might need a good cleaning and adjustment settings checked.
    Avoid getting a “rebuilt” or “reman” carburetor. Major carburetor rebuilders will take a certain number of “similar but not matching” carburetors (like say 30 of Carter BBD’s) and strip them down to induvial parts tossing each of “same item” into different piles. They will take all linkage to get stripped and replated (sometimes, sometimes not) and so forth. Then they take the parts and reassemble them. I would say that 80% (note: this estimate might be on the low side) of “rebuilt” or “reman” carburetors only are using 15 to 25% of the correct parts. Baseplates that don’t match its gasket, jets which are way wrong size, tops that don’t match the bases or middle bodies and so on/so forth.
    I’ve worked on hundreds of carburetors for Chrysler. I would say ½ are simple cleaning, adjustments and the occasional sunk float or bad choke pull-off. The other ½ are fixing more substantial problems from recent “rebuilt/reman” installs which used incorrect and/or mismatched parts.

    I am against using parts from China.
    That said, there is a recent supply of brand-new Carter BBD knockoff carburetors on eBay (which are from Asia, somewhere). I “think” someone either purchased the Carter patents or reverse engineered the parts to make duplicates. I purchased one of them about 7-10 years ago (can’t remember exactly when) and installed it onto my computer-controlled ’86 Fifth Ave 318. Up until recently, it has been working well for me, but just last weekend I have a stopped-up air bleed that needs cleaned out (a similar "complaint" to what you have). I just bought a rebuild kit and have the carburetor on my workbench for an overhaul. I even tried a few times to sneak out to the garage to do so (this weekend), but wife kept calling me back to “other things”.
    Before I would purchase a “rebuilt” or “reman” carburetor (which, for the most part, a huge waste of money), I would consider cleaning yours, send yours to a shop who will rebuild yours or get a new one. I don’t see much of an issue with rebuilt or reman parts – except for carburetors.

    Note: your ’88 will either have a Holley 6280 2-bbl or a QuadraJet 4-bbl. The Carter BBD and Holley 6280 are similar carburetors but there are some differences between the two (one will not bolt directly in place of the other).
    BudW
     
  4. IndieDippy

    IndieDippy Well-Known Member

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    as i've heard many say, the car is "temperamental" took it out today (its my daily driver) and warmed her up for over 5 minutes. after idling for a few minutes it begins to idle slow and puttering a bit before going back up again, this normal? i took off once the idle smoothed out but i got that dag on surging again. i pulled over and opened up the hood and let her sit a while in the pouring rain and once i closed it, the car ran smooth as a whistle! there is a hose that is rubbing up against the dip stick housing that is a little bit burnt and the clicking noise shows up every now and then but is nowhere near as severe as it once was. shows up for a second or two once cold starting then goes away with a rev or a yell of "shut up!" i have given thought to the fuel injection conversion but i fear it may be expensive and who knows how the end product would turn out. if it saves fuel economy i guess i'm in. what ever fuel economy you can get from one of these boats!
     
  5. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    These cars do have some quirks but being temperamental shouldn’t be one.

    Can you take a picture of the “burnt hose on dipstick”?

    Rain / high humidity can make the ignition system act up (high voltage meets water…) at times. Sometimes hitting a water puddle just right can make either of my cars act up for a bit.
    Same with washing car underhood at a car wash. Get a bit of moisture in the distributer cap area and it can do the same thing – until that area gets hot enough to boil out the moisture.
     
  6. IndieDippy

    IndieDippy Well-Known Member

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    burnt hose:

    20191024_183811.jpg
     
  7. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    That hose comes from the A.I.R. (Air Injection Reaction) pump. The A.I.R. pump pushes air into either the exhaust manifolds (before engine reaches operating temp) or to catalytic converter (after engine gets to operating temp).

    That hoses looks/appears to be a heater hose (and heater hose might work for a replacement – if wanted) and it connects from the A.I.R. pump to a metal check valve (white circle/arrow).
    88 AHB a.jpg

    This is pictures from my ’87 Parts Manual:
    87 PM pg 11.714c.JPG
    The metal air check valve is blue circle. The hose in question is the (green) underlined #4. The two orange arrows (different pictures) are the same item.
    87 PM pg 25.2071a.png

    The rubber hose in question, is not under that much pressure (5-10 PSI, maybe) nor it is hot – so I wonder why it would be melted.
    If the A.I.R. pump is not working and if the check valve failed, it can allow (hot) exhaust to backup that direction – but not sure that exhaust would be hot enough to melt rubber.
    Is your A.I.R. pump belt is attached?

    You could replace the hose with heater hose or cut out the damaged section with a splice – if wanted.
    BudW
     
  8. IndieDippy

    IndieDippy Well-Known Member

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    everything appears fine with the car. just that hose is a little bit burnt. not sure if i can move it or not
     
  9. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    It is not a critical concern – unless the air pump is disconnected.
    If it is disconnected (no belt), and if check valve failed (white circle, above), then that can be a concern (exhaust can/will melt rubber (or worse)).

    If pump is connected (has belt and turns when engine is running) I would either leave it alone OR:
    Get a heater hose splice kit (3/4” inside diameter – I think) or get some electrical tape and wrap around it a couple of times. There shouldn’t be any heat (other than normal underhood heat (~230’ F)) and part is not under much pressure.
    BudW


    Edit, I might even have an hose I removed from my '86 Fifth Ave - but don't remember its condition.
     
  10. IndieDippy

    IndieDippy Well-Known Member

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    another video of the clicking noise. car hates the cold. maybe making this my daily and not having a modern car on the side was a mistake...
     
  11. Ele115

    Ele115 Well-Known Member

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    Good hose for that is available from Cat, Mack and International. It is basically a high temp (foil shrouded) heater hose for EGR cooler lines that run right against the turbo chargers or exhaust pipes. They have special hose clamps. They can take a LOT of heat.