Help me ease my mind.......Rod Knock???

Oldiron440

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For me pulling a transmission is more of a problem than a motor so I'd pull the motor replace the flexplate if needed or pull the pan , I'd probably pull the pan anyhow just because. I'd have done a compression test before pulling so I'd now how good the heads were etc.
But that's just me I don't get off the floor very well now days.
 

Aspen500

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One of the worst things we need to do as auto tech's, diagnose an engine noise. You can usually only narrow it down and take an educated guess but, don't know 100% for sure until you start pulling it apart. On some engines, they have common noises caused by a common failure so it's a lot easier to decide what is wrong (GM 5.3L AFM lifters for example), but not a Mopar LA engine.

Old Iron, I know what you mean about getting up off the floor. It used to be so easy, not so much anymore.:(
 

BudW

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I’ve been surprised on a lot of things over the decades. It could be a rod bearing failure – but I just don’t see that that often with 318’s. If engine has been using oil and there is a possibility of engine running out of oil, then the likelihood does start shooting upwards for the rod bearing – but you know your engines oil consumption better than I do.

To be honest, I do have oil consumption issues with both of my 318’s, currently. Both cars need valve seals replaced. Let’s face it, I would say that 90%+ of all the engines FMJ’s used need valve seals (unless you have had recent engine work performed). Those rubber umbrella seals get rock hard and crumble which allows engine oil to get sucked right down the valve guides. I’ve seen them crumble when five to six years old, and most Chrysler engines need valve seals replaced after 10-15 years old. I might have to do a writeup on how to change valve seals with cylinder heads on car (not that difficult for most of us).
SE_MV1771 Valve Stem Seal.jpg


Every seal/gasket on my Volare wagon is leaking – which I suspect is from age. Most likely because of gasket shrinkage. Just think about a seal or gasket not leaking after 42.5 years of service (in the case of my Volare).

My Fifth Ave has an excessive blowby problem because the piston rings not sealing (or broken). The PCV valve just can’t keep up when on the gas petal is down (which is more often down than not, for city driving). I have taken the car for a couple long distance driving which helped – but not enough. Fixing valve seals (only) will not make a difference on it. It really needs an engine overhaul – but I'm not going to do that. The big blocks I’m working on will make a nice replacement.


Getting back to your issue. If engine oil level is fine and oil consumption hasn’t been an issue (or is, but you stay on top of it), then I would say it is unlikely it is a rod bearing.

There is a way to test for a rod bearing problem you can do yourself - but there is a small bit of personal risk involved. Pull the spark plug wire off each plug with engine running. Just keep the time the plug wire is off to a minimum (unburnt fuel collecting in exhaust is not good for converters). The problem you face is you could get shocked with 30 to 40,000 volts. Getting shocked will not hurt you (unless you have a pacemaker), but it will generally cause you to jerk violently. When a person jerks suddenly, you can easily get hurt (elbow contacts hood hinge, head hits hood, slip and fall backwards, etc. so just be careful. When the plug wire is removed to the cylinder with bad rod bearing the noise will immediately change to a much lower tone and resume noise level when plug wire is reattached.

If you are concerned about a rod bearing, that is a good way to check. Some shops have a special tool one can use that will disable a cylinder at a time, but I hadn’t seen one, that fits our cars, in many moons.
BudW
 

Aspen500

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My old '81 D150 318 burned a quart every 300 miles and left an embarrassing blue cloud at idle and on decel. Redid the heads with new guides, valves and seals and then it was MAYBE 1/4 quart per 3,000 miles. Amazing how much oil can get past bad seals, especially with worn guides.

There are insulated pug wire pliers made for that purpose. I've got a pair at work and they're made of some sort of laminated composite material. One advantage of an engine with coil on plug, you can disable the spark by unplugging the primary wire connector (or by using a scan tool in some cases) so they don't get much use anymore.
 

Oldiron440

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I had an Aspen wagon with 90k at 8 years old and the valve seals were shot at that time. It also needed guides so I pulled the heads and a valve job was done. It doesn't take long for degradation of the heads at least on the 70s Fbody. The car was good for another 70k that I know of because I sold it to a family member who drove it and sold it to a friend. But it went to Wisconsin so I suppose it had a rusty end of life.
 

BudW

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I love what todays scan tools can do (other than the initial costs).
Just wish they did actually something for FMJ vehicles (including Lean Burn) . . .
BudW
 

volare 77

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I agree with BudW. You don`t see rod bearing failure too often on the 318. Sure it happens but not that often from my experiences.
 

Ele115

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I sure would love to be able to plug in like OBDII and read "live data" for Lean burn. I guess there' the pros and cons of loving antiques.
 

XfbodyX

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You don`t see rod bearing failure too often on the 318.

Im surprised to hear that from you guys, ive two rod knocking 318 F-s currently and have a file of 6-7 F-s ive parted with rods laying in the pans. I always surmised it was from the owners trying to run harder then the rod bolts were designed for. Trying to run like a non smog 340. Usually the rod bolts are what caused the bearing failure or just simply not changing oil. Maybe not so much the m@j cars but there are many more F-s without the org. 318 then with, but everyones world is different.

Naa 318-s are easy on rods bearings, just hard on rods.

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volare 77

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They must be unlucky or poorly serviced. I can`t count the number of high mile 318`s I, friends and family have had and never had a rod knock in any of them. Sure i have seen them but it was rare..
 

BudW

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My old '81 D150 318 burned a quart every 300 miles and left an embarrassing blue cloud at idle and on decel. Redid the heads with new guides, valves and seals and then it was MAYBE 1/4 quart per 3,000 miles.
My ’68 Charger (original 383 car) used oil and smoked bad when I got it. I changed valve seals on it and smoking stopped and oil consumption dropped to almost nothing.

I would guess oil consumption and a lack of checking engine oil level might be a cause of problems (maybe).
BudW
 

Aspen500

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You don`t see rod bearing failure too often on the 318.

Im surprised to hear that from you guys, ive two rod knocking 318 F-s currently and have a file of 6-7 F-s ive parted with rods laying in the pans. I always surmised it was from the owners trying to run harder then the rod bolts were designed for. Trying to run like a non smog 340. Usually the rod bolts are what caused the bearing failure or just simply not changing oil. Maybe not so much the m@j cars but there are many more F-s without the org. 318 then with, but everyones world is different.

Naa 318-s are easy on rods bearings, just hard on rods.

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Most likely that result is from using the engine for something other than what it was designed for. I'm sure you're right, the stock rod bolts and nuts are the weak link. In normal use for a 318 the engine usually outlasts the car, especially in salt states. That said, I did have a 318 blow the bottom end out BUT, it was on it's last leg anyways, burned a quart of oil every 50 miles (and was not only valve seals, lol) and had 5 psi oil pressure while driving, zip, zero, nada at idle. Just driving along at 35 mph and knock, knock, KABOOM. Looked very similar to your photo's.
 

XfbodyX

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A bit off topic but the two type mopars I used to replace the 318-s in or bought them blown were the 73-74 like cudas and the F-s. Its odd because the rod bolts were all the same but they were beat hard. One of my fun things were if they were already knocking hard and they had another motor for me to drop in, id take the car out and finish off the 318 really well, some still running with six pistons together.
 

rcmaniac791

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The engine doesn't use any oil, however, when I start the car, it takes 5-7 seconds for the oil pressure light to go out. Without checking the oil pressure with a gauge, I'm guessing I have low oil pressure. The engine makes all kinds of noises while the oil pressure is coming up. I still may pull the pan to check the rods myself. I may however take this as a sign to finally make the performance modifications that I want to. Depends on budget. I may be able to turn this not so good situation into a fun project. Fortunately I'm not depending on the car for transportation. Time will tell.
 

XfbodyX

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I may be able to turn this not so good situation into a fun project.

THATS a great attitude.



If you have not spun a bearing and it dont sound like you have you could swap them out, possibly run a +.001 or just a straight replace and toss in a new oem style pump, the m72, not the hv72.

If you find thats the issue. A low buck fix (approx $150) and a weekend.

That would buy you alot of miles. But its all speculation until its apart clearly.
 

Ele115

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Maybe just pull the pan and get some plastigauge and see what you got
 

Oldiron440

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I think I've only had two running 318s ever. Lol

Come to think of it maybe only two 360s as well.:)

Two b blocks
Way to many 440s. :cool:
 
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M_Body_Coupe

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I like BudW's suggestion re: shutting down the cylinder and listening for a tone change...that'd be an easy tell-tale sign of where things are a bit past "just-right" fitment.

Speaking of low oil-pressure...I did have a 360 motor once where there was a significant amount of lifter bore wear and when hot the darn thing was basically at 0-5psi on a good day.

I was in school at that time, the thing regularly saw a 2.5hrs highway haul home over the weekends and it required a half-way stop to top-up the oil...LOL...God, I loved that ride, and hated it...but it always put a smile on my face and for that reason when the schooling was done and the bank account recovered off I went and got myself an '80 coupe!...speaking of which, I have started my 408 W2 stroker project and will be getting a thread started in the Projects section to share the joy with everyone!
 

XfbodyX

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I've got 318 rods in my 367, and it's been blasting to 7000 since 1999. I can't say 318 rods are weak; but mine did get ARP bolts.


And not only did I sleep at a holiday inn last night I caught a world record catfish before six am and the new world record catfish at 9 am, all on 2lb test line. All this with one bad eye.

And all this with the wallace race calculators.
 
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