paint basics

Exterior Body and Trim

  1. AdamR

    AdamR Member

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    paint basics
    Etch or wash primers – Go direct to bare metal and assist in adhesion but are mostly there to serve as a conversion coating to prevent a rock chip from getting out of control. Do not put over filler. Do not put under filler.

    Epoxies – Can go direct to metal and work well by themselves. There is debate as to weather it is best to put over an etch or not, that’s personal preference and experience. I have done both ways with success. Can go over body filler and can go under body filler once the epoxy is properly prepped. Epoxies can also be used as a sealer. That said you can put urethane primers over them or under them and color can also be put directly on them as well. Watch your dry times epoxies are slow. Epoxies also have little filling capability but with a couple of coats they can prevent corrosion quite well.

    Urethane Primers – Must have a etch or epoxy under them except for small (quarter or style line) cut troughs. Some companies recommend a sealer some don’t so follow manufacturer recommendations.
    They can go directly over body filler (180 is the coarsest grit scratch I am aware of) but body filler should not be put over them (some glazing putties are okay). They will not prevent moisture from saturating through to metal so don’t put a car outside and allow it to soak. Wet sanding is okay. Also they are not body filler!!! 3 coats let it dry and sand it and reprime if necessary and watch flash times. A good filler primer builds 4-6 mils a crisp dollar bill is 2 mils thick and new OEM paint jobs are an average of 4-6 total. That’s all the more primer will fill.

    POLYESTER PRIMER SURFACER is a corrosion-resistant, sanding primer surfacer based on an air-drying polyester resin. The pigmentation is carefully balanced for optimum sanding properties. It is fast drying and has excellent filling properties and adhesion over fiberglass, metal, plastic and wood. Can be topcoated with all types of finishes, acrylics, lacquers, synthetic enamels and two-component urethane coatings.

    *DO NOT USE LAQUER PRIMERS!!! They dry very fast but they will also shrink over time leaving sanding scratches.

    Sealers – Some companies do not require. They will fill at most a 320 grit scratch. They are meant to go over primers and cover very very small cut throughs (to metal or filler) and help with the porosity of primers for better color hold out. It also makes for a uniform color to go over resulting in faster hiding and better color uniformity. Some companies use colored sealers and some use various shades of grey and both work.

    From here on all you have to do is pick a color and decide if you want to spray basecoat clear coat or single stage!

    Single Stage - There are many urethane single stage and enamel paints available and they will give a similar appearance to OEM just shinier! I would only single stage solid colors not metallic’s. If your spraying a urethane and really want to have some fun cocktail the single stage color and some clear on the last coat looks awesome!

    Basecoat/Clearcoat – This is how most new cars are painted. Must go over primer, epoxy or sealer.
    Basecoat - Since you only have to worry about making the base uniform it is easier to control the color especially in metallics.
    Clearcoat - Then it is time for clear and there are loads of different clears out there. Clears can be very environment and skill level dependant so ask questions. Higher solids clears will look deeper and have better DOI (distinctiveness of image) but may be more challenging to spray.

    Color - Depending on plant,enviroment and spray equipment colors varied. Even today there is a great deal of variation on color. Look at all the variants for GM's 382E Pewter! When spraying; the color you go over, number of coats, type of gun, fluid nozzle on gun, distance, air pressure, reduction ratio, reducer selection, type of paint (laquer, enamel, urethane, basecoat clearcoat or single stage)and paint manufacturer can all vary a color. If thats not enough golds and pewters can be the most difficult. A spectraphotometer (color camera) can help but it can still get weird. So to get started get some paint and do a spray out card. ALWAYS START WITH A SPRAYOUT. and verify it to the car near the area you will be painting. If it doesn"t match take in a polished part of the car at least 3"x3" (piece must be flat) and have a reading done then do another spray out. Some distributors even offer to tint colors for a fee. If you want what was "correct" for that car you should match it to an unmolested area and check around the car in case of repaint. Also make sure if the paint has sat that it gets shaken thoroughly as pigments settle.
     
    greymouser7 likes this.
  2. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    For the do it your selfers...I like to use this newly found epoxy primer in a spray can...I used it and it worked and sprayed just like a HVLP spray gun...adjustable spray pattern and the overspray is almost like a dry fall product...it falls and dries quickly..I give it a big thumbs up...Spray Max 2K epoxy primer..

    IMG00060-20110216-1058.jpg

    This is the front of my car that I used the epoxy primer...like that white

    IMG00606-20110129-1255.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  3. old tired rebel

    old tired rebel Well-Known Member

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    Great Tips. Thanks
     
  4. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    I forgot to tell you were you can get the Max 2K spray...Try Auto Body Tool Mart on-line
     
  5. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    Adam since your a paint expert and I am somewhat of a novice I have a question for you...In my engine compartment there with be places that will have bare metal and sanded down factory enamel paint...can I spray epoxy primer over both bare metal and paint?

    Thanks

    Eric
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  6. AdamR

    AdamR Member

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    Im certainly no expert but as long as the old paint is prepped your fine going over old paint. I have a rabbit of always worrying about adhesion and usually go over all my jambs and tight spots with red scotch bright after sanding.

    Epoxy is like glue, It will stick.
     
  7. 77RTNJ

    77RTNJ Well-Known Member

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    so the primer you see at auto stores are they lacquer or epoxy? Most don't state, so does that mean they are lacquer? Am I better going to my paint supplier to get the primer. will it be in cans or that the stuff that Eric is using, or does it need to be sprayed in a gun.

    Kevin
     
  8. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    Paint dealer will have a two part epoxy primer that you will have to mix and spray with a gun....that's why I find the rattle can epoxy stuff handy and easy to use...no mixing
     
  9. 77RTNJ

    77RTNJ Well-Known Member

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    So the other stuff is just lacquer right. for the primer I used so far do I need to sand most off, or is it ok to go over with the epoxy primer.

    Kevin
     
  10. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    Rustoleum and such never seems to dry or better yet they continue to shrink under the paint...that epoxy rattle can spray dried fast and stuck like crazy glue..I won't say that they are lacquer but they have solvents in them
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  11. MeMike

    MeMike Well-Known Member

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    I have painted a few car's and Tractors and I always use a prep whip Adam.
    This would be used with a blue shop paper towel then I use a tack rag behind it.
    I have used the rattle can primer to cover work that has been dun ,but I sand it all off and use a good sealer builder primer before I start spaying color.
    I always water the floor down under and around the car to prevent any dust to get flying in the air, I wash the car/tractor with a automatic dish washing soap and use prep whip to remove any wax or oils to prevent any build up on my sand paper
    There is some good info on this thread Adam :glasses1:
     
  12. AdamR

    AdamR Member

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    Rostoelum is oil based, You dont want to use it. Most canned paints are either Lacquer or Enamel, You really want to use a good 2 part primer or may end up with a lot of shrinking.

    There are some good canned primers available, like above, also SEM makes some good ones and Eastwood sells a 2 part in a can.
     
  13. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    Eastwoods sells the Spray Max two part exopy rattle can....Auto Body Tool Mart was a little cheaper when I bought it...
     
  14. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    All back in white now...3 and a half cans...I had five on hand...70 bucks worth of epoxy primer and a lot of work before it...That spray max stuff is the bomb..

    IMG00387-20110326-1641.jpg

    IMG00388-20110326-1655.jpg

    IMG00389-20110326-1706.jpg

    IMG00391-20110326-1707.jpg

    IMG00392-20110326-1745.jpg
     
  15. 77kickinaspen

    77kickinaspen Well-Known Member

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    u know much about the oil based enamels?
     
  16. ramenth

    ramenth Well-Known Member

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    What about 'em?
     
  17. slant6billy

    slant6billy Well-Known Member

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    primed mopar started anyway

    I kind of had mono for a month or so, so I was not being lazy- really

    primed mopar.jpg
     
  18. kkritsilas

    kkritsilas Well-Known Member

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    I would like to ask if anybody knows where I can get touch up paint that will match the "nightwatch blue" that is supposed to be the color or my 1982 Mirada. None of the automotive stores around here seem to have paint that goes that far back. Most of them start in the mid 1990s.

    Kostas
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
  19. lowbudget

    lowbudget Well-Known Member

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    You probably won't be able to find touch up paint that old. You could always have your local paint jobber mix you up a quart and thin it a little bit.
     
  20. lowbudget

    lowbudget Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple questions.
    Do you have to cut and buff a single stage urethane? Or will it give you an OEM shine like the old Acrylic enamels will?
    Why cant you spray metallic's with single stage? Do you consider Dodge Silver Poly a metallic?
    I was just thinking if a person had to cut and buff out an engine bay it would be a pain. I'm on the fence on what to use. I suppose I could just shoot it with Acrylic Enamel and be done with it.
    Thanks Mike