1. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    sooo,
    I took some 80grit to my rust spots, applied rust converter and sprayed a little primer over. The good news is, the surface rust didn’t leave severe dimples or holes in the skins. Everything came off and cleaned up well enough.
    So my plan (and please correct me where needed)
    Mask off car, take panels down to metal with 80grit
    Apply ospho
    Apply axalta 615s
    Apply primer
    Sand with 240
    Apply enamel satin black

    Will this work or do I need to revise my plan?

    My hood, roof and trunk are covered in spray paint from a previous owner and the photo attached shows the areas that I removed the rust from this afternoon.

    9A129DA8-51E2-4A73-8498-5264A36B9C49.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  2. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason to take the whole car down to bare metal. In fact, the least amount of bare metal is best. Any factory applied primers are far better than anything that can be sprayed in the field. Plus, grinding into the metal will make it rust that much easier. You only need to block sand the factory paint to an intact surface. Not even necessarily all the way to the primer. 80 grit is WAY to coarse, as is 140. Paint won't fill that big of sand scratches, it'll accentuate them. For prepping the surface, unless it's really bad, I'd recommend 220 or 240 grit. Then, after using wax and grease remover (do this before you start sanding also), spray the primer surfacer. Then block it with 320, prime again and block with 400 until all the 320 scratches are gone, repeat the primer and sanding until all the flaws are gone. After that, clean it again, go over it with a tack cloth and shoot a coat of sealer. Do not sand the sealer or use wax/grease remover on it. Just a simple wipe of the tack cloth is all. Lastly, spray your top coat.
    What you actually use for the final grit before paint depends on the type of paint and in some cases, the manufacturer. I've seen some recommend 600 grit before paint.
    If you've never painted a car before, be prepared for a lot of work, tedious work! lol That's why they say painting is 95% prep, 5% paint.
     
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  3. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Whoops, that should have said 240, not 140. I edited it.
    I used 80 to cut through rust and 240 to smooth before applying the primer
     
  4. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    My inexperience with body work aside, all the spray paint on the hood/roof/trunk is clogging my sand paper real quick
     
  5. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I only did paint and bodywork for 45 years and was certified in both PPG and Dupont so I'm staying out of this but what is ospho?
     
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  6. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Rust killer. Please do get involved lol
     
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  7. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    Please be more specific about this rust killer.
     
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  8. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Skyco ospho,
    Stops the formation of rust and preps metal surfaces for paint processes
     
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  9. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    It’s the spray painted panels that are getting me down at the moment. Factory painted panels I can take down nice and even to the primer. The panels that have been spray painted seem to be smearing more than sanding and that’s caused me to go down to metal in a couple spots; Just can’t tell what’s happening until it’s too late. Is there something that could help with the spray paint or a preferred method for Removing it?
     
  10. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. You could try wet sanding, it helps keep the paper from clogging. For dry sanding, I have good luck with the 3M Sandblaster abrasive paper. Costs more but works a lot better and lasts a lot longer so, it isn't really more expensive in the long run, and doesn't clog as easily either.

    I've had luck sometimes with paint like that by using a razor blade to scrape it off. It generally isn't stuck that well and may peel off fairly good.

    OldIron, you did paint and body for 45 years? Hmmmm, explains a lot:D I only do paint and body work out of necessity. In reality, I HATE it but since my money trees never seemed to sprout, well, you know. lol
     
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  11. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    If your talking about a product like Metal Prep witch is a conversion coating for steel it's only for clean steel, no rust. There are similar products for aluminum also.
    With these you do not use etch primers. If using a epoxy primer you should not use a etch or convertion coating first it needs the go on clean metal. The conversion coating were first designed for lacquer primers to promote adhesion. Paints and primers have improved a great deal over the last 30 years, the product is outdated. Infact it can cause problems if not used correctly.

    The reason I asked was I was wondering if you were talking about a rust converter like pro15 is supposed to be. I have used a product like this on a trunk lid back in 2006, I first sanded the lid it had a great deal of surface rust with pits over the entire surface. Then I used a two part system that I believe part 1 was Acid and part 2 was the converter coating. It's been thirteen years since I did the car and I've heard of no problems.
     
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  12. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Ospho converts rust to iron phosphate that can be sanded, primed, painted. Says it doesn’t leave a residue but I still wiped down with mineral spirits before applying primer.
    Pro15 I know as a hard rust encapsulator. With how high the rust was under the surface of the paint, I figured knocking it down to seemingly fresh metal and treating it with Ospho would be the best move for a smooth finish, but again, I have no real idea.
    As far as primer, i seemed to have grabbed a couple cans of acrylic primer. Again, no idea if this is good/needed.
    Looking for guidance online isn’t too helpful as nearly every link I click on has similarities but different processes/steps/chemicals/paints recommended.
     
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  13. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    Your working outside the normal shop processes so I really can't help because I'm not familiar with the product's your using. As an example a shop or at least a shop that guarantees its work cant paint over rust.....period. And we can't or shouldn't spray paint over an aerosol etch primer because in comparison with the etch primers we spray from the paint gun, the aerosols are junk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  14. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    So aside from telling me “I’m doing it wrong” in so many words, no advice...got it. Lmfao 45 years of experience, a story of how you painted over rust and “a real shop would only...” I already clearly stated I didn’t know what I was doing and was looking for help with my plan..are you just plain unhelpful or playing unhelpful? lol I’ll check in again when I have a gun and the full DuPont paint catalog so grandpa can be helpful
     
  15. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to be a smart ass there are many ways to do different things. I saved a deck lid under the condition there was no guarantee with a professional product that happen to work.
    Me personally I would sandblast all rust and spray a epoxy primer on the aira, I'd cut the paint back from bare metal with 180 grit paper, prime and block with 220 then go over with 320 grit on a DA. Finnish sand with a 400 grit paper clean and paint.
    I use an epoxy primer that is sandable and works very well. If the bodywork needs a recoat of primer I use either a urathane or Slick Sand a polyester primer.
    Epoxy primer is designed to go over sandblasted bare metal and sanded bare metal, it has the best rust holding ability of all the sprayed products.
    All my techniques are from four years ago and things change fast in the paint technologys but they are solid and I will not hesitate to use them on my own vehicles.
     
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  16. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    One more thing when you spray your alkyd enamel make sure you use hardener in the paint or it will be extremely difficult to repair and recoat, the paint will lift and never look right.
    One trunk lid in 45 years is not the standard but the exception, I've sprayed a 1000 + gallons of paint sence then.
     
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  17. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    And I don’t mean to be a sarcastic prick either. My options and finances are limited so, I gotta make due with what I can unfortunately. However the steps you provided do give me a much better point of reference and I appreciate it greatly.
    I could have sold the car back in June for $1000 to a bodyman but, I couldn’t stand the thought of the car having gold spoke wheels and a metallic candy apple red paint job.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  18. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    Paint and I do not get along well (so, by no means, an expert). Painting engine brackets is about the best I can do.

    Now a couple of questions I have on your case/example:
    Most (not all) Fifth Ave’s are clear coated. Painting a body panel that has clear coat on it, might present some issues (maybe). Painting the entire car would be better – which I would assume is your intent sense there appear to be spots on side of car and you mentioned sanding the hood.

    I do recommend removing as much trim as you can for it will help with sanding and such, less taping and less potential for part damage (from sandpaper and so forth).

    The wide trim over the roof, has nuts holding it down just behind the headliner (five, I think). The marker lights have two speed nuts behind the fender/inside trunk. The wheel well trim is a handful of screws (a stubby screwdriver helps). Many of these items can be done with car still being drivable. Note: if you do remove the wheel well trim, mark them, for all four are different

    I have heard that flexible items (the bumper fillers) need an adjustment in the paint for it to adhere. It might be a good idea to remove them to begin with and paint them separately (if they do require something different for paint, that is).


    My metallic charcoal gray ’86 Fifth Ave doesn’t have any body or structural issues (minor door dings, except for picture below) but I do have a major (massive?) clear coat failure that needs to be addressed. I like the car but getting tired of looking at it. The roof appears to have no paint left on it – but that is hard to tell in this photo.
    20170325_175358m.jpg

    20170427_143957m.jpg
    A 6" limb hit the car.

    When I get ready to paint my car, it will not have hardly anything attached to it. the taillights, door handles, grill, and so forth will be off.


    My ’97 Dodge ¾ ton pickup will need to have some body work done to it and I need to learn how to paint on it.

    Last Saturday, we got the tree off it. but fender/hood needs changed out and body has been demanding a paint job for a while now (factory white paint has been peeling off (look at the bed)). At least the pickup doesn’t have the amount of trim that needs removed, like my cars do have.
    20190827_120229p.jpg

    I am eager to know what materials you do use. What worked and what didn't - so keep us informed, if you would, please.
    BudW
     
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  19. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Woke up early and started pulling off trim pieces and sanding a little.
    I purchased the car from a detailer. It seems the clear coat was mostly cut away from him doing a paint correction before I purchased it.
    Also found out that some of the trim pieces are held on by plastic clips that are secured to studs/rivets that seem welded to the body panels.
    The chrome strips around my wheel wells have been secured with an overwhelming amount of self tapping screws after factory screws rusted away.
    All in all, like every project I start, seems like this will be a lot more work lmfao
     
  20. Camtron

    Camtron Well-Known Member

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    Hook and loop sanding disk > stick on sanding disk
    There’s something calming about all the sanding and shaping ect...should have been a body man instead of a mechanic lol