Second Chance at a MOPAR the "BlackBird" build

[Quintin11]

Greetings;
Good to see things are moving along, it's always great to have a distraction when you need it, you will certainly pass a lot of time staying busy with your new project. There's always another Mopar waiting for you.....

 

[greymouser7]

Hey Rich, Happy Holidays! I hope things are going well. I have sent you a couple of private messages with no response. Let me know how you are doing brother.

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

Hey! all is good. I have been driving the Blackbird everyday without a hitch. I really have to say that I am very pleased with the car and I think that the gas mileage is over 20 MPG now that the car isn't loaded down like a pack mule. My family was REALLY surprised that i was able to fit all my tools, the 4 speed trans, music equipment, my daughter her toys clothes ect ect I should have taken a pic. just imagine a volare with a full the the top trunk loaded with tools and clothes the inside had the inside loaded all the way up I did leave my self enough room to see out the windows for safety. I tell you what they built these cars like tanks because there is NO way I would have fit half the stuff that I loaded into the Blackbird into a rice burner.


I am really proud of that car.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Good to hear things are well man......
Never had any doubts about that beast....she was built well.
Or should I say rebuilt.......

 

[Mopars1]

Great story and job! Congrats on getting it done and moving on!

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

Poly bushings, ball joints, tie-rods....alignment.....then the head gasket needs replaced. (should have put a new head gasket when I put the engine in) then after that the car is going to need new tires up front. $$$$ thank god for rockauto.com I have a cart with a valve cover gasket ,head gasket and ball joints and it only comes to 35 bucks after shipping. :happy7: I would have had the flairs and louvers on the car by now its just I cant do fiberglass work in the cold and doing it indoors is not happening. It's going to have to wait till spring.

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

Been looking into building a turbo slant also...seems like the thing to do. Its gonna take a few junkyard trips to get the parts I need. I read up on it and seems like all you have to do is cut the stock manifold and weld a turbo flange onto it. the rest seems straight forward from there. When I do this I am going to try to find a early model forged slant. If I cant I am still doing it on a cast crank block.

 

[greymouser7]

Been looking into building a turbo slant also...seems like the thing to do. Its gonna take a few junkyard trips to get the parts I need. I read up on it and seems like all you have to do is cut the stock manifold and weld a turbo flange onto it. the rest seems straight forward from there. When I do this I am going to try to find a early model forged slant. If I cant I am still doing it on a cast crank block.

When they build a turbo charged slant 6 engine, what RPM will they comfortably max out at? What is the safest, maximum RPM for a 4" crank?

Wouldn't be difficult to weld to a cast-iron exhaust manifold? What do you do?-heat it up to glowing red, weld, and then slow down the cooling down process..?

Everything that I have ever heard of welding to that type of metal (sometimes incorrectly referred to as pig-iron) said that it was difficult.

They do it for rare, matching-numbers blocks and heads on older cars, but Tulsa Welding recommended against it as a general principal.

 

[greymouser7]

What did you send to the Mopar magazines about your car?

 

[compubert]

Rich- you surely changed water into wine with that one.

What oil are you running? Pennzoi, Quakerstate, Castrol all will do that because of filler agents in the oil. The agents will hold moisture and foam up. The Valvoline high mileage my help somewhat, but be careful running that 20/50 weight oil.
Maybe just run Valvoline 10W40 conventional

Billy, curious about why you are careful with the 20/50? Thanks

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

When they build a turbo charged slant 6 engine, what RPM will they comfortably max out at? What is the safest, maximum RPM for a 4" crank?
probrably the same as it is with out turbo. around 4,000 the power curve drops off. these engines are not designed to rev. You do not need to have a high revving engine to successfully have turbo. the turbo has to be sized properly for the application.

Wouldn't be difficult to weld to a cast-iron exhaust manifold? What do you do?-heat it up to glowing red, weld, and then slow down the cooling down process..?
I have seen it in a few write ups and from FABO members that they cut the stock flange off and weld the turbo flange on. looks easy actually...

Everything that I have ever heard of welding to that type of metal (sometimes incorrectly referred to as pig-iron) said that it was difficult.

Looks easy seriously. As for worrying about cracks heat stress the turbo is not suspended off the flange to reduce the risk of stress cracking. a bracket is made to support the turbo to the block. Although I would like to point out that even if you pony up the 1000 bucks for a ceramic coated turbo header it may crack as well might as well make it out of something that is a dime a dozen so...really this worry of your's about the difficulty of welding onto cast iron is nothing to worry about

They do it for rare, matching-numbers blocks and heads on older cars, but Tulsa Welding recommended against it as a general principal.

Anything can be welded. It is done everyday.

I made the desision when I saw these acticles that no one could find.

http://www.allpar.com/fix/holler/slant-six-turbo.html

http://www.moparmax.com/columns/magnante/vii_1-5.html

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

this is going to be interesting. always wondered what it would be like to have a 300+ HP slant

 

[gtsdude]

Over at Abodiesonly they have a few slant turbo builds in the forced induction section, a nice J shaped pipe off the exhaust manifold and welded a turbo flange on it, after relocating the battery also. Lots of room to work with.

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

I will seriously consider doing just that. battery in trunk. no problem...

 

[Jack Meoff]

You guys are giving me some evil ideas.....

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

mwahahahaha

 

[greymouser7]

this is going to be interesting. always wondered what it would be like to have a 300+ HP slant

(No sarcasm or taunting) DOes it take a turbo/supercharger/nitrous or high (11+ to 1) compression to get 300 hp out of the slant 6? I want to know.

If you took the forged crank at 4.125" and grounded it down to 3.8", & bore out the block to 3.5" and go from 238ci to 219ci I think that you might make up for loss of stroke with RPM capacity. I am not sure about the capability of the oiling system, or rockers in regards to RPM. THe SBM crowd will take a 4" stroke crank in their blocks past 6500 with oiling mods.

3.8" stroke, IAW the different big 3 small block enthusiasts is right around the sweet spot (600hp) for rpm/stroke/max hp

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

you can get 500 HP out of one but that is usually like a forged block forged pistons connecting rods. lots of money dumped into machining and head work. and really nice turbo's and really nice everything...a stock slant 225 will put out of built well around 150 HP and so doing things like over-sized valves port and polish the head raise compression. new bump stick. timing chain ect ect. will get you closer to a little over 200 if I'm talking about at the flywheel btw. not brake HP. 200 HP is nice in a light car. boosting can take that and raise it however much you decide to boost. I am looking for a modest power gain to retain the fuel economy. you can boost an engine till it blows and reach ungodly amounts of power before it does. I think a 500 HP slant is a monster and is probably not streetable. most likely a pedal to the metal car only.

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

(No sarcasm or taunting) DOes it take a turbo/supercharger/nitrous or high (11+ to 1) compression to get 300 hp out of the slant 6? I want to know.

YES!! and you can get more than that

If you took the forged crank at 4.125" and grounded it down to 3.8", & bore out the block to 3.5" and go from 238ci to 219ci I think that you might make up for loss of stroke with RPM capacity. I am not sure about the capability of the oiling system, or rockers in regards to RPM. THe SBM crowd will take a 4" stroke crank in their blocks past 6500 with oiling mods.

I see your point but I have never heard of destroking a slant. "You would have to cut the rod journals down to something like a Honda rod bearing size to be able to destroke it, then use a differnt rod. Not that hard, but probably not worth the expense. never heard of anyone removing that much from a crank seems like it would screw it up"

3.8" stroke, IAW the different big 3 small block enthusiasts is right around the sweet spot (600hp) for rpm/stroke/max hp

I am talking about the slant six. Not a 10,000 dollar V8

:eusa_think:

 

[Blackbirdsrt78]

I just have this one last thing to say. My thoughts on turbo for a slant all revolve around where will the power be at. This is a car that is driven on the real road not a 1/4 mile track a couple times a season. the power needs to stay in the low RPM range which is why the over 4 inch stroke is so great low RPM torque. why try to fiddle with the best thing about the slant. Big block stroke. There are so many options for turbo's out there now its awesome. a relatively small turbo that will spool up at lower RPM's exists. another thing is because that one side of the engine has Nothing accept the intake and exhaust and it is slanted the other way. there is more room to put a turbo setup then on anything I have ever seen. Its not like there is anyone right way to do it I personally have seen dozens of different looking setups and...they all kick ass. The worries that you have about the RPM are irrelevant nowadays there are so many turbo options you can use now its nothing like it was a decade a go even. the junk years a full of them the internet is full of them and they come in many shapes and sizes. If you have ever seen a slant that can do 12's and wondered how in the hell....turbo and or nitrous were involved.