Aspen500
Well-Known Member
I believe Comp Cams started making their lifters here in the USA again after having so many failures of the Chinese crap lifters. Assume that includes both flat and roller.(?)
The ‘13 Hemi teardown begins…
- Thread starter Lightning II
- Start date
Lightning II
Well-Known Member
what gets me is, if there's the oiling holes on the lower sections of the cam tunnel, then why didn't anybody think of adding a set of piston oil squirters along the cam tunnel?
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
They probably did, but as so often happens, the bean counters said no.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
My take on this is that there IS an inherent oiling issue with the Gen 3 Hemi. I can understand that the factory wanted to keep costs down as much as possible and skimped on the hardening of the cam surfaces. It has happened with other manufacturers, on but cams and lifters, whether it be the manufacturers themselves or whoever it was that supplied the cams to the manufacturers.
If this is happening with aftermarket cams supplied by established, quality, or otherwise known cam manufacturers, it indicates to me that there is something other than the cams or lifters themselves being an issue. If this is happening, on say, a Crane cam, and isn't happening on Crane cams used in other engine types (LSes, Coyotes, small/big block Chevy/Chryslers, Ford Windsors/FEs/385, etc.), its not a Crane issue. I don't think any reputable aftermarket cam manufacturer is going out of its way to improperly harden only Gen 3 Hemi cams.
If this is happening with aftermarket cams supplied by established, quality, or otherwise known cam manufacturers, it indicates to me that there is something other than the cams or lifters themselves being an issue. If this is happening, on say, a Crane cam, and isn't happening on Crane cams used in other engine types (LSes, Coyotes, small/big block Chevy/Chryslers, Ford Windsors/FEs/385, etc.), its not a Crane issue. I don't think any reputable aftermarket cam manufacturer is going out of its way to improperly harden only Gen 3 Hemi cams.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
This IS the crux of the matter, at least in my mind. I don't understand why, after these cam failures started to show up, that there wasn't a revision to the Gen3 Hemi to address this. They have revised the Gen3 Hemi at least once (when they went to a twin plug per combustion chamber head, at least, but maybe again after that).
Lightning II
Well-Known Member
The Gen3 has always had twin plugs. The revision was when they added VVT & updated the heads.
The only time I can recall hearing about cam failures is on flat tappet cams wiping out within startup in the last few years.
Maybe it is possible that the oiling issue is an oversight from raising the cam tunnel as high as they did?
The only time I can recall hearing about cam failures is on flat tappet cams wiping out within startup in the last few years.
Maybe it is possible that the oiling issue is an oversight from raising the cam tunnel as high as they did?
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
That still doesn't explain why it's only an issue with the later hemis.
Usually the problem starts with the roller lifters failing and then taking out the cam. Only the cam going is pretty rare.
Yeah this whole issue is fairly new. Roller lifters and cams had always been pretty reliable, then again so were regular ones until the zinc issue.
Usually the problem starts with the roller lifters failing and then taking out the cam. Only the cam going is pretty rare.
Yeah this whole issue is fairly new. Roller lifters and cams had always been pretty reliable, then again so were regular ones until the zinc issue.
Lightning II
Well-Known Member
maybe they changed the size of the needle bearings in the lifters from the early version to the VVT version, then reverted in '16?
the curiosity is getting to me. Time for research.
EDIT: found a video.
the curiosity is getting to me. Time for research.
EDIT: found a video.
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I know they went to bigger needle bearings in... 2018ish and there were still failures after that.
I noticed that this post shows that video too and mentions that there is oiling to the lifters and cam.
www.challengertalk.com
"there are indeed oil galleries @ the lifter bore that would both lubricate the lifter bore, the roller tip and bearings and the lobe of the cam."
There is a video that shows that somewhere.
I noticed that this post shows that video too and mentions that there is oiling to the lifters and cam.
Cutaway View Hemi Lifter Improvements [ larger needle...
www.challengertalk.com
"there are indeed oil galleries @ the lifter bore that would both lubricate the lifter bore, the roller tip and bearings and the lobe of the cam."
There is a video that shows that somewhere.
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Lightning II
Well-Known Member
Interesting, I haven't heard about the post-2018 engines having the lifter failures.
I did wind up bookmarking a couple Engine Masters builds from the 2010's, and one of them used modified LS lifters. The roller bearing size is identical, it's the upper section where the link bar portion is what they modified. They also modified the cassettes that hold the top of the lifters in line so they could use the LS lifters in the Hemi.
I did wind up bookmarking a couple Engine Masters builds from the 2010's, and one of them used modified LS lifters. The roller bearing size is identical, it's the upper section where the link bar portion is what they modified. They also modified the cassettes that hold the top of the lifters in line so they could use the LS lifters in the Hemi.
Lightning II
Well-Known Member
Well, I’ve got it all torn down except for the sensors that are in the sides of the block, and ONE mds solenoid.
Lightning II
Well-Known Member
Seeing as the main oil galley is literally that center tube, it shouldn't be too huge of a deal to get some oil squirters aimed at the camshaft.
