The ‘13 Hemi teardown begins…

Aspen500

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I believe Comp Cams started making their lifters here in the USA again after having so many failures of the Chinese crap lifters. Assume that includes both flat and roller.(?)
 

Lightning II

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what gets me is, if there's the oiling holes on the lower sections of the cam tunnel, then why didn't anybody think of adding a set of piston oil squirters along the cam tunnel?
 

Aspen500

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what gets me is, if there's the oiling holes on the lower sections of the cam tunnel, then why didn't anybody think of adding a set of piston oil squirters along the cam tunnel?
They probably did, but as so often happens, the bean counters said no.
 

kkritsilas

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My take on this is that there IS an inherent oiling issue with the Gen 3 Hemi. I can understand that the factory wanted to keep costs down as much as possible and skimped on the hardening of the cam surfaces. It has happened with other manufacturers, on but cams and lifters, whether it be the manufacturers themselves or whoever it was that supplied the cams to the manufacturers.

If this is happening with aftermarket cams supplied by established, quality, or otherwise known cam manufacturers, it indicates to me that there is something other than the cams or lifters themselves being an issue. If this is happening, on say, a Crane cam, and isn't happening on Crane cams used in other engine types (LSes, Coyotes, small/big block Chevy/Chryslers, Ford Windsors/FEs/385, etc.), its not a Crane issue. I don't think any reputable aftermarket cam manufacturer is going out of its way to improperly harden only Gen 3 Hemi cams.
 

kkritsilas

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They probably did, but as so often happens, the bean counters said no.
This IS the crux of the matter, at least in my mind. I don't understand why, after these cam failures started to show up, that there wasn't a revision to the Gen3 Hemi to address this. They have revised the Gen3 Hemi at least once (when they went to a twin plug per combustion chamber head, at least, but maybe again after that).
 

Lightning II

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The Gen3 has always had twin plugs. The revision was when they added VVT & updated the heads.

The only time I can recall hearing about cam failures is on flat tappet cams wiping out within startup in the last few years.

Maybe it is possible that the oiling issue is an oversight from raising the cam tunnel as high as they did?
 

Mikes5thAve

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That still doesn't explain why it's only an issue with the later hemis.
Usually the problem starts with the roller lifters failing and then taking out the cam. Only the cam going is pretty rare.
Yeah this whole issue is fairly new. Roller lifters and cams had always been pretty reliable, then again so were regular ones until the zinc issue.
 

Lightning II

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maybe they changed the size of the needle bearings in the lifters from the early version to the VVT version, then reverted in '16?

the curiosity is getting to me. Time for research.

EDIT: found a video.
 

Mikes5thAve

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Interesting. I know they went to bigger needle bearings in... 2018ish and there were still failures after that.

I noticed that this post shows that video too and mentions that there is oiling to the lifters and cam.


"there are indeed oil galleries @ the lifter bore that would both lubricate the lifter bore, the roller tip and bearings and the lobe of the cam."

There is a video that shows that somewhere.
 
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Lightning II

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Interesting, I haven't heard about the post-2018 engines having the lifter failures.

I did wind up bookmarking a couple Engine Masters builds from the 2010's, and one of them used modified LS lifters. The roller bearing size is identical, it's the upper section where the link bar portion is what they modified. They also modified the cassettes that hold the top of the lifters in line so they could use the LS lifters in the Hemi.

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Lightning II

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Well, I’ve got it all torn down except for the sensors that are in the sides of the block, and ONE mds solenoid.

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Lightning II

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Seeing as the main oil galley is literally that center tube, it shouldn't be too huge of a deal to get some oil squirters aimed at the camshaft.
 

Lightning II

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new non-MDS lifters have arrived from TSP early last week, and towards the end of last week I the Holley carb intake showed up. Tomorrow morning I get to pick up the MMX/EFI-Source ignition setup from the post office.

After that, I just need to order a 6.4 oem cam, bearings & gaskets, the VVT-Delete from Stanke, and pick a carb. Then the rebuild begins.
 

Lightning II

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Well, slight update: I wound up going to TSP for the camshaft & gaskets too. Ordered cam bearings & the installation tool. I didn’t want to pay the $225 that the machine shop wanted to remove & install the cam bearings. I’ve found a couple videos on YouTube that were for cam bearings on the 5.7’s. I think I can do this.

Looks like I get to spend part of the weekend cleaning the rotating assembly and polishing the crank journals.
 

Lightning II

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well, we've finally gotten to the end of the bottom-end teardown.

The cam bearings are now out, and the block goes to the machine shop tomorrow for it's cleaning.

With my goal of passing the car off as a "could've been" made performance option from the late '80's...I'm left with a tough choice.

What color to paint the block?

I feel going with the usual Hemi Orange (street or race) is a bit overdone. What do you guys think of going with the lighter blue or black instead?

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Mikes5thAve

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Black would be my choice. Blue might look a bit odd with the modern look.
I agree orange sort of also makes it look like you're asking for attention like look what i stuck in there.
 

brotherGood

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If it were going to be a sleeper, I'd paint it whatever the color the engine was for the year of the car.
 
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