Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
Here is the color code here
Doba is in Primer
- Thread starter Bruceynz
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Bruceynz
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Color is much nicer than 1970s glacier blue, its like a subaru imprezza blue but not as bright. It looks about half as bright but gives deeper look if that helps.
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
Here is tonight's progress, if weather is ok we might get the hood painted tomorrow.
80mirada
Well-Known Member
looking good
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
Thanks, hope you guys like the progress pics, done a lot of work to this car and once its painted its finished! My friend said its been not to bad to do, zero rust, just a dozen dents one big rest like shopping trolley dings! Just amazing how paint changes the car!!!
Yellowdart69
Well-Known Member
Yellowdart69
Well-Known Member
First - all of these cars were assembled in Windsor Ontario, so it is unlikely that the fender extensions, for US bound cars were different. I can only speak for my car, since I have had it since new. It spent its first seventeen years as a daily driver always parked outside. Every year, I had it oil sprayed. And every year, the back plastic, above the bumper would become slightly deformed, but slowly go back to relatively flat. Since that time, the car has spent most of its life in a garage. The car was repainted, about twenty years ago. And I wonder if the paint, is somewhat responsible. My cracking, on the rear only, is fairly minor, but started about two years ago. This week I took the car to a bodyshop, owned by the Bodyman, who used to work, at the Chrysler dealer that I bought the car from. He suggested that he could remove the rear bumper, and try to repair it from below, but that he did not know what the plastic was made of.
89.Fifth
Well-Known Member
So one possible reason some plastics fail fast and others don't at all has to do with what's called Catalyzers. Particular chemicals used to "set" the material when it's made. Think about when you mix Bondo with the little tube of hardener, that little tube is a kind of catalyzer, it makes the Bondo set.
Now you when you mix that stuff they give you really rough estimates about how much to use because it probably doesn't matter all that much. Sure there's a "perfect" amount where the two chemicals will react exactly right with each other and there's no leftover anything once the reaction is done. But for Bondo if you use a little too much hardener or not quite enough it's probably fine. Most people err on the side of too much and that's ok.
With commercial grade rubbers and plastics it's a little bit different and you really want to get the ratios exact because the demands of the material are a lot higher. Having too much or too little of something means the chemical reaction doesn't happen exactly perfect and you have some stuff leftover that's floating around looking for something to react with.
So now imagine it's Monday July 6th 1981 and the guy in charge of the machine that mixes the chemicals at the plant is still hungover from an insane 4th of July cookout with his buddies and can't see too straight still. He punches in a couple of wrong numbers or pours in too much of something or generally screws up his job somehow. Now there's way too much catalyzer and he gets a bad batch of parts and all of them melt or something. So he dials it back some and suddenly some parts stay solid long enough to get out the door and that's good enough for him. Maybe they look fine and maybe they hold up for a few years without a problem but lurking inside is all this unfinished chemical stuff going on slowly degrading the plastic. Fast forward 30 years and you can imagine what happens.
And there's all kinds of reasons why chemicals might react in funky ways. Maybe batches were better on cold days instead of hot days. Maybe they were worse on humid days than on dry ones. Maybe the chemical supplier had bad quality control. Maybe everybody was sober on Tuesday but started drinking around lunch time on Friday. You never know and probably won't be able to find out.
So your short answer is: Beer and random unexplainable crap.
Now you when you mix that stuff they give you really rough estimates about how much to use because it probably doesn't matter all that much. Sure there's a "perfect" amount where the two chemicals will react exactly right with each other and there's no leftover anything once the reaction is done. But for Bondo if you use a little too much hardener or not quite enough it's probably fine. Most people err on the side of too much and that's ok.
With commercial grade rubbers and plastics it's a little bit different and you really want to get the ratios exact because the demands of the material are a lot higher. Having too much or too little of something means the chemical reaction doesn't happen exactly perfect and you have some stuff leftover that's floating around looking for something to react with.
So now imagine it's Monday July 6th 1981 and the guy in charge of the machine that mixes the chemicals at the plant is still hungover from an insane 4th of July cookout with his buddies and can't see too straight still. He punches in a couple of wrong numbers or pours in too much of something or generally screws up his job somehow. Now there's way too much catalyzer and he gets a bad batch of parts and all of them melt or something. So he dials it back some and suddenly some parts stay solid long enough to get out the door and that's good enough for him. Maybe they look fine and maybe they hold up for a few years without a problem but lurking inside is all this unfinished chemical stuff going on slowly degrading the plastic. Fast forward 30 years and you can imagine what happens.
And there's all kinds of reasons why chemicals might react in funky ways. Maybe batches were better on cold days instead of hot days. Maybe they were worse on humid days than on dry ones. Maybe the chemical supplier had bad quality control. Maybe everybody was sober on Tuesday but started drinking around lunch time on Friday. You never know and probably won't be able to find out.
So your short answer is: Beer and random unexplainable crap.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
I understand what is being said, and I don't have any reason to dispute any of it. It still does raise the following questions:
1. if it is batch to batch variations, as 89.Fifth was saying, I wonder why all 3 of my J bodies have perfect extensions, to the point where they are still not only intact, but still flexible. I don't do probablity statistics well, but to end up with 3 (Cordoba, Mirada CMX, and base Mirada) cars, from 3 different years (1980, 1981, and 1982), and still have all 3 perfect has to be a pretty low probability.
2. Could there have been more than one supplier, with one making "good" plastic, and another making "not so good" plastic, the "not so good" supplier's extensions crumbling?
3/ As far as I know, all 3 cars have their original paint, meaning acrylic enamel. Of those who have crumbling, how many have had their cars repainted? Maybe the non-factory painting or even having a different primer has an effect? Did anybody have any special additives added to the paint that was used on the extensions, and that reacted?
Just trying to figure this out.
Also, I am also a fountain pen collector. There are a lot of extremely good, collectible pens that were made in the 1920s and 1930s (no ballpoint pens at that time). A similar effect happens to them; the celluloid on some pens starts to "crystallize", where the celluloid breaks down, and the smooth celluloid ends up looking like it is covered in small crystals or has a grainy appearance. No definitive cause, but the leading theory on that one is that the celluloid material manufacturers sometimes did not cure the celluloid properly, which is similar to what 89.Fifth was saying above. End result is eerily similar to what is described in the case of the fender extensions with problems: weak material that is quite brittle, and will crumble at any random point in time.
1. if it is batch to batch variations, as 89.Fifth was saying, I wonder why all 3 of my J bodies have perfect extensions, to the point where they are still not only intact, but still flexible. I don't do probablity statistics well, but to end up with 3 (Cordoba, Mirada CMX, and base Mirada) cars, from 3 different years (1980, 1981, and 1982), and still have all 3 perfect has to be a pretty low probability.
2. Could there have been more than one supplier, with one making "good" plastic, and another making "not so good" plastic, the "not so good" supplier's extensions crumbling?
3/ As far as I know, all 3 cars have their original paint, meaning acrylic enamel. Of those who have crumbling, how many have had their cars repainted? Maybe the non-factory painting or even having a different primer has an effect? Did anybody have any special additives added to the paint that was used on the extensions, and that reacted?
Just trying to figure this out.
Also, I am also a fountain pen collector. There are a lot of extremely good, collectible pens that were made in the 1920s and 1930s (no ballpoint pens at that time). A similar effect happens to them; the celluloid on some pens starts to "crystallize", where the celluloid breaks down, and the smooth celluloid ends up looking like it is covered in small crystals or has a grainy appearance. No definitive cause, but the leading theory on that one is that the celluloid material manufacturers sometimes did not cure the celluloid properly, which is similar to what 89.Fifth was saying above. End result is eerily similar to what is described in the case of the fender extensions with problems: weak material that is quite brittle, and will crumble at any random point in time.
Bruceynz
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slant6billy
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That is killer. Striking!
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
The camera doesn't really show color well its more deeper, camera shows it light in the sun, photos in garage more like it looks like, I am only using my mobile phone to take photos.
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
Got the clear coat on the roof today! Need to finish base coat on hood and then finish right side
Justwondering
Well-Known Member
When I ran my fiberglass plant, my lead guy was quite the artist when it came to fiberglass. He dialed in the hardener based on humidity, temperature, and wind movement. I never got the hang of it. But he'd done it for years (over 20) and just 'knew' how to adjust the chopper gun feeds.
As for changes in manufacturing... we had a mold for an aftermarket hood scoop chevy truck hood. It fit perfectly if the trucks were made in the North American plant. It didn't fit correctly if the truck was made in the Mexico plant.
The gaps for the Mexico plant assumed a narrower hood by about 1/4 inch left to right. So I would always attach a note to that shipment reminding the buyer that an extra wide gap would require adjusting the front fenders in toward the engine bay. It was just that the tolerances in the Mexican plant weren't the same as the tolerances in the Michigan plant.
As for changes in manufacturing... we had a mold for an aftermarket hood scoop chevy truck hood. It fit perfectly if the trucks were made in the North American plant. It didn't fit correctly if the truck was made in the Mexico plant.
The gaps for the Mexico plant assumed a narrower hood by about 1/4 inch left to right. So I would always attach a note to that shipment reminding the buyer that an extra wide gap would require adjusting the front fenders in toward the engine bay. It was just that the tolerances in the Mexican plant weren't the same as the tolerances in the Michigan plant.
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
ok couple more coats went on hood and then the clear, my friend is going back to oz and back in dec, so will be finished then.
80mirada
Well-Known Member
Looking good! The J-body does really lend itself well to painting in sections
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
He likes to paint that way, he said makes it easier as you can make sure you get it right.
Joe12459
Well-Known Member
Looks great! I love the color!
Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
My friend is back from Oz, we got the other side done tonight! Will unmask it in 24 hours.
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Bruceynz
Well-Known Member
Couldn't wait!!
