8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
I already have a distributor, came in the kit I bought with the ECU, ballast and wiring harness. Adjustable vacuum advance too.
Hi guys! New member, first post! A couple of 318 in an M-body questions :)
- Thread starter 8v-of-fury
- Start date
All Mopar vacuum advances are adjustable... just for the record. It does not adjust the amount of advance, merely the rate at which it's applied.
The easiest method for your intake, short of using all factory stuff, is using an Edelbrock 2176 Performer. As much as I hate that intake (it's worse, performance-wise, than a factory 4V intake) it's easily gotten used from eBay, Craigslist, or swap meets at far less than the price of new. The big thing is that it has the boss at the runner needed to correctly mount your AC compressor, and to my knowledge is still the only aftermarket intake that does. It will accept either a square- or spread-bore carburetor, but with a square-bore you need a thin steel plate to seal it correctly in the area of the secondary openings. Those plates are easy to find; in fact I think I have a couple in the garage.
I will respectfully disagree with others that recommend the Edelbrock 1406 or any other Edelbrock carb. The Edelbrock design is nothing more than a Carter AFB, which even Chrysler thought was an outdated design--in 1968. Yes, they seem to run nicely out of the box and that's good for you since I don't think this is a max-effort hot rod situation. However, with what they sell as gasoline today, the Edelbrocks fall apart internally rather quickly unless you drive the car daily. They last longer if used daily, but the float arms and float baffles are made of crap recycled something that resembles plated steel that rusts very easily. I live smack dab in the middle of the Corrosion Center of the Known Universe, and it's the only carb I've ever seen have a float literally rust off its pivot arm. :eusa_doh: Junk, junk, junkity junk. The Carter AVS Thunder Series is not a proper AVS, it's just their modification to the AFB design for an adjustable secondary, which the Performer/AFB does not have. The inherent problems with the Performer design remain, which is not the case with an actual Carter AVS.
I would suggest you find a ThermoQuad, which will not require the steel plate between it and the intake and is a far-superior design. Get one from a 360 pickup truck or any A38/AHB (cop) 318-4V since they're the same carb except the list number and miniscule metering differences. If there's a single wire coming off the back, it's just a bowl-vent solenoid that hooks to 12V+ with the key on, and there may be an idle stop solenoid at the driver's front that can be wired to kick in with the AC but is not critical (the wire's probably already on your car, actually).
Before you wire in that electronic ignition, you need to find an article from an old Mopar Action called "Trash that Lean Burn". There's a lot more to it than just wiring up the new parts; you have to unwire some old stuff or everything goes up in smoke--new and old parts alike. I have the article here somewhere (Mopar Action Tech Special #3; I'm gonna kick the cleaning lady in the shin I swear), but I won't have access to a scanner until late this week. It's pretty straightforward, nothing scary, but just the right way to do it. The same Tech Special has an article about ThermoQuads, too. If you need this stuff, let me know and I'll see what I can do to get it to you.
The easiest method for your intake, short of using all factory stuff, is using an Edelbrock 2176 Performer. As much as I hate that intake (it's worse, performance-wise, than a factory 4V intake) it's easily gotten used from eBay, Craigslist, or swap meets at far less than the price of new. The big thing is that it has the boss at the runner needed to correctly mount your AC compressor, and to my knowledge is still the only aftermarket intake that does. It will accept either a square- or spread-bore carburetor, but with a square-bore you need a thin steel plate to seal it correctly in the area of the secondary openings. Those plates are easy to find; in fact I think I have a couple in the garage.
I will respectfully disagree with others that recommend the Edelbrock 1406 or any other Edelbrock carb. The Edelbrock design is nothing more than a Carter AFB, which even Chrysler thought was an outdated design--in 1968. Yes, they seem to run nicely out of the box and that's good for you since I don't think this is a max-effort hot rod situation. However, with what they sell as gasoline today, the Edelbrocks fall apart internally rather quickly unless you drive the car daily. They last longer if used daily, but the float arms and float baffles are made of crap recycled something that resembles plated steel that rusts very easily. I live smack dab in the middle of the Corrosion Center of the Known Universe, and it's the only carb I've ever seen have a float literally rust off its pivot arm. :eusa_doh: Junk, junk, junkity junk. The Carter AVS Thunder Series is not a proper AVS, it's just their modification to the AFB design for an adjustable secondary, which the Performer/AFB does not have. The inherent problems with the Performer design remain, which is not the case with an actual Carter AVS.
I would suggest you find a ThermoQuad, which will not require the steel plate between it and the intake and is a far-superior design. Get one from a 360 pickup truck or any A38/AHB (cop) 318-4V since they're the same carb except the list number and miniscule metering differences. If there's a single wire coming off the back, it's just a bowl-vent solenoid that hooks to 12V+ with the key on, and there may be an idle stop solenoid at the driver's front that can be wired to kick in with the AC but is not critical (the wire's probably already on your car, actually).
Before you wire in that electronic ignition, you need to find an article from an old Mopar Action called "Trash that Lean Burn". There's a lot more to it than just wiring up the new parts; you have to unwire some old stuff or everything goes up in smoke--new and old parts alike. I have the article here somewhere (Mopar Action Tech Special #3; I'm gonna kick the cleaning lady in the shin I swear), but I won't have access to a scanner until late this week. It's pretty straightforward, nothing scary, but just the right way to do it. The same Tech Special has an article about ThermoQuads, too. If you need this stuff, let me know and I'll see what I can do to get it to you.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
NoCar340:
I'd like a copy of those articles, too. No hurry for me, though.
Kostas
I'd like a copy of those articles, too. No hurry for me, though.
Kostas
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
Jeepers Golly Gosh Mister! @"Mopar or NoCar340" 
Thank-you, thank-you. I have found this article, I cannot find anything about the one you mentioned via google search. It is pretty much all I have for a resource.
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/leadfoot/leanburn.htm
Yessir, you are correct this is not a max effort HP situation.. this is a "get this car running properly again situation so it can remain on the road getting better than 9mpg".. haha. I still need to wait on the intake getting here so yes, I would appreciate those articles very very much.
I went to National Moparts today, talked to a few people there.. couple office dudes, couple yard dudes.. We rummaged through all their thermo-quads, and had a good chat. Super good guys there. Real Canadian hospitality in there for sure! So I bought a 9046S ThermoBog, I mean ThermoQuad.. lol. It is off a 1975 400 apparently. I have a rebuild kit coming for 830am tomorrow. I got the carb and a 4bbl air cleaner for $35
Is there a replaceable diaphragm inside the accel pump? I don't see how it would be replaced if so.
Thank-you, thank-you. I have found this article, I cannot find anything about the one you mentioned via google search. It is pretty much all I have for a resource.http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/leadfoot/leanburn.htm
Yessir, you are correct this is not a max effort HP situation.. this is a "get this car running properly again situation so it can remain on the road getting better than 9mpg".. haha. I still need to wait on the intake getting here so yes, I would appreciate those articles very very much.
I went to National Moparts today, talked to a few people there.. couple office dudes, couple yard dudes.. We rummaged through all their thermo-quads, and had a good chat. Super good guys there. Real Canadian hospitality in there for sure! So I bought a 9046S ThermoBog, I mean ThermoQuad.. lol. It is off a 1975 400 apparently. I have a rebuild kit coming for 830am tomorrow. I got the carb and a 4bbl air cleaner for $35
Is there a replaceable diaphragm inside the accel pump? I don't see how it would be replaced if so.
slant6billy
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Nice catch there. That even has the vacuum port for the distro. Good prices too. There are some good videos on tuning them. NoCar is right about the fuel. I killled a 600 Edelbrock with the blend gas. I blame the other junk filler agent in the fuel. I worked a station from 88 to 95. This crap they sell as gas is a big joke. Stales quick. I add the new stabil for corrosion (or anti corrosion- that is) I recommend it for any car - even injected. I killed a holley a year before that on crap gas. One trick I used is to put a plastice cap on the carb. That is, take the aircleaner off and cap the carb for overnight / long storage. It will slow the oxidation down "slightly".
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
One quick question I need to know for sure though.. The kit I ordered with my parts guy says it is for many carbs, but also the 9046 TQ. However, I have a 9046s. Does this matter?? Sorry, I understand my ignorance is annoying.. Gotta start somewhere right?
I agree, I will most certainly be using fuel additives. My other vehicles are Volkswagen Diesel's and the Diesel fuel has gone WAYYY down in quality.. ULSD is a real killer for diesel fuel pumps. I use additives religiously in those, it will be done! lol. I do like your storage idea, very nifty.
On the lean-burn thrashing.. II have these instructions that came with my Dizzy.
I agree, I will most certainly be using fuel additives. My other vehicles are Volkswagen Diesel's and the Diesel fuel has gone WAYYY down in quality.. ULSD is a real killer for diesel fuel pumps. I use additives religiously in those, it will be done! lol. I do like your storage idea, very nifty.
On the lean-burn thrashing.. II have these instructions that came with my Dizzy.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
The letters on the end don't really matter. TQs will be called numbers like 9182, but if you look on the carb itself, there is always an S at the end. In Vaanth's guide,
http://members.shaw.ca/crussel/thermoquad/tqguide.html
in the listing notes section, it notes that the "S" is left out.
From the above link, you seem to have an 850 CFM carb (9046 has 1 1/2" primaries, which indicates an 850 CFM carb; 800 CFM carbs have 1 3/8" primaries). As the link says, any TQ can be set up to work with pretty much any engine.
Kostas
http://members.shaw.ca/crussel/thermoquad/tqguide.html
in the listing notes section, it notes that the "S" is left out.
From the above link, you seem to have an 850 CFM carb (9046 has 1 1/2" primaries, which indicates an 850 CFM carb; 800 CFM carbs have 1 3/8" primaries). As the link says, any TQ can be set up to work with pretty much any engine.
Kostas
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Set up properly, a TQ will not bog. The rush of power is instantaneous and exhilirating... and that oh-my-God howl is the music of the divine. Setting the air doors is pretty easy, using a tool you can make at home with stuff you probably have lying around (assuming you don't want it to last forever). If you want a long-term service tool, it's still easy enough to make but you need better materials.
The Proform instructions show you how to wire up the ignition on a points car. They do not take into account that there may be a previous electronic system in place. The article I have goes right down to wire colors and bulkhead cavities, if memory serves. I'll scan it later this week if all goes well.
The Proform instructions show you how to wire up the ignition on a points car. They do not take into account that there may be a previous electronic system in place. The article I have goes right down to wire colors and bulkhead cavities, if memory serves. I'll scan it later this week if all goes well.
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me, I await your scans NoCar340 Thank-you. I have rebuilt the carburetor, and set up most things on it. The air door setup was no issue. Just two screw drivers did it for me.. It is set with light tension on the door to its seat and then an additional 1-1/4 turn as per my carb kit. I set the floats to I think it was 29/32", and I set the accel pump to to its 31/64".. however by doing this, the spring tension of the accel pump is enough to keep the curb idle screw from touching ??? I mean who know's maybe my curb idle adjustment is set too low, it is not on the car right? soo I can't be sure. But the accel pump is set properly so we will see once I get it on the car.
In my readings, I have read that many people refer to this carb as complicated. Are they whacked? It is far less complicated then the 2v carbs on these things.. lol The linkages, maybe they meant the linkages. I will give them that.. however, those too.. with a little looking at them, can be understood easily.
On the linkages.. I have a question. The bracket that the fast idle screw is attached too.. It kind of just moves around freely? I feel like it should have a spring or something holding it one way or the other, but it can kind of just move freely. Anyone got any good pics of a normal throttle linkage side of one of these?
Thank-you. I have rebuilt the carburetor, and set up most things on it. The air door setup was no issue. Just two screw drivers did it for me.. It is set with light tension on the door to its seat and then an additional 1-1/4 turn as per my carb kit. I set the floats to I think it was 29/32", and I set the accel pump to to its 31/64".. however by doing this, the spring tension of the accel pump is enough to keep the curb idle screw from touching ??? I mean who know's maybe my curb idle adjustment is set too low, it is not on the car right? soo I can't be sure. But the accel pump is set properly so we will see once I get it on the car. In my readings, I have read that many people refer to this carb as complicated. Are they whacked? It is far less complicated then the 2v carbs on these things.. lol The linkages, maybe they meant the linkages. I will give them that.. however, those too.. with a little looking at them, can be understood easily.
On the linkages.. I have a question. The bracket that the fast idle screw is attached too.. It kind of just moves around freely? I feel like it should have a spring or something holding it one way or the other, but it can kind of just move freely. Anyone got any good pics of a normal throttle linkage side of one of these?
The fast-idle cam should be controlled by the choke.
Your linkages may require bending for everything to work. This isn't uncommon, in fact it's part of the TQ setup manuals issued over the years. Click here for a factory guide to linkage adjustments you won't find in a rebuild kit. It's for '72, but it applies well to most TQs except the oddball '71 versions.
As far as setting your secondaries, you've got the correct baseline, but you'll need to tune it further for the car once you've got everything set up. The kit instructions are fairly universal and a good baseline, but unless you're the luckiest fella on the planet it's going to need a little more love once it's on the car. For the record, I've always managed to get by with two screwdrivers too. :icon_biggrin:
Your linkages may require bending for everything to work. This isn't uncommon, in fact it's part of the TQ setup manuals issued over the years. Click here for a factory guide to linkage adjustments you won't find in a rebuild kit. It's for '72, but it applies well to most TQs except the oddball '71 versions.
As far as setting your secondaries, you've got the correct baseline, but you'll need to tune it further for the car once you've got everything set up. The kit instructions are fairly universal and a good baseline, but unless you're the luckiest fella on the planet it's going to need a little more love once it's on the car. For the record, I've always managed to get by with two screwdrivers too. :icon_biggrin:
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
Got my manifold, woohoo.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
Nice!
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
If this were some beauty build, for sure, I'd love to one day do this thing up right! For now, cleaning it all and cleaning the gasket surfaces is good enough for me
I need to get intake gaskets tomorrow, and then I will begin tear down? Naw I might wait, to fully know what of the ELB/ESA needs to stay or go.
I need to get intake gaskets tomorrow, and then I will begin tear down? Naw I might wait, to fully know what of the ELB/ESA needs to stay or go.
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
Is it not as simple as taking all the old wiring off the coil and such and then adding my own new harness to the coil and to the new dizzy? It would seem as though I just need to find the tap for 12v in Start and Run or either side of the resistor. The coil gets it from the resistor-ed side of the run circuit, and the ECU box.
Yes that is what I did on my Aspen, I used the same wiring diagram, when I got my car it had a regular distributor that was getting run by the ESC box that was zip tied to the inner fender and used an eddy carb.
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8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
What do we want to run for a coil on these bad boys? Do we want a higher powered coil? I have seen some do it with a GM HEI module.. Or just keep it plain Jane and use the stock coil?
The resistor that came with my ECU and Dizzy says 1.25 ohms on the side of it measures 2 ohms.
I have an accel coil here.. that was in my 67 Cougar, might it be a good choice? Tested out at 1.50 primary ohms and right on 11k secondary ohms. If I used this, would I still need to use the resistor?? Even though it will make the full resistance of 3 ohms on the primary coil??
My pictures loaded weird.. The first one is the primary resistance corresponding to number four. Second and third are correct for the secondary. Five and six are also correct for the resistance of the resistor..
The resistor that came with my ECU and Dizzy says 1.25 ohms on the side of it measures 2 ohms.
I have an accel coil here.. that was in my 67 Cougar, might it be a good choice?
Tested out at 1.50 primary ohms and right on 11k secondary ohms. If I used this, would I still need to use the resistor?? Even though it will make the full resistance of 3 ohms on the primary coil??My pictures loaded weird.. The first one is the primary resistance corresponding to number four. Second and third are correct for the secondary. Five and six are also correct for the resistance of the resistor..
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
So I did some reading.. It would seem to take advantage of GM HEI stuff, you NEED to use the GM E-core coil as well as the GM ignition module. Now I am fine with ditching the orange box and wiring harness.. because for the price I paid for the kit, I am happy to have paid that for the distributor alone.. I have a very good parts discount at the local parts shop, a.k.a employee discount (even though I don't and never have worked there LOL). I will see what prices are on a brand new coil and ignition module.
What I am reading it needs to be from a mid-late 90's vortec engine. Like a 4.3L Astro or Safari.
It would also seem then that the positive of the coil will now receive a full 12v from the ignition switch in both RUN and START ?
I have a very good parts discount at the local parts shop, a.k.a employee discount (even though I don't and never have worked there LOL). I will see what prices are on a brand new coil and ignition module. What I am reading it needs to be from a mid-late 90's vortec engine. Like a 4.3L Astro or Safari.
It would also seem then that the positive of the coil will now receive a full 12v from the ignition switch in both RUN and START ?
