Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Only in the early ones as an option.
My first post and it's a doozy
- Thread starter 5thtimesthecharm
- Start date
Only in the early ones as an option.
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
oh. 70s only? i was thinking of the rumored 360 cop cars.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the wait all, life has really been getting in the way. First health issues, that thankfully I've walked away with a clean bill and no lasting effects.
New job is kicking my ass, 12h overnight shifts that sometimes swap to 12h day shifts with 24h to adjust so my energy level is just nonexistent.
Not to mention my daily driver civic is now having starting issues so trying to get that diagnosed while still getting to work and whatnot. It's been a great couple of weeks *can ya sense the sarcasm lol*
I did get the mancini ignition kit, costed $450 all in and it has arrived(really quickly actually). It has just been sitting in the garage waiting, same with my freshly cleaned 2280. I also have a double roller kit if it's needed. Just wanted to let yas know I havnt forgotten about this and will post as soon as I have news.
New job is kicking my ass, 12h overnight shifts that sometimes swap to 12h day shifts with 24h to adjust so my energy level is just nonexistent.
Not to mention my daily driver civic is now having starting issues so trying to get that diagnosed while still getting to work and whatnot. It's been a great couple of weeks *can ya sense the sarcasm lol*
I did get the mancini ignition kit, costed $450 all in and it has arrived(really quickly actually). It has just been sitting in the garage waiting, same with my freshly cleaned 2280. I also have a double roller kit if it's needed. Just wanted to let yas know I havnt forgotten about this and will post as soon as I have news.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Ok got 3 days off and I'm trying to use them as best I can.
Spent an hour or two going over my ground connections, cleaning with a drill and wire bit. Dialectic grease applied
Freshly cleaned 2280, I spent last night rebuilding and putting it together, however there is no way for me to transfer over the idle control solenoid, no way to mount it? It has been put on the car, and tested today. No leaks, And yes I made sure to hook up the emissions lines correctly since the 2280 and 6280 the rear ports are swapped (pcv goes to left port instead of right when looking at front of carb)
BEFORE testing, I actually went up to the scrap yard again, and I found a fuel control computer, wasn't paying attention to what it came out of, it was on a 318, had the same labeling as mine, So I took that for shites and giggles.
Now the car does seem to run better with the 2280, smoother at its high idle, and seems like it starts quicker.
However same exact issue, under roughly 1k rpm or ANY load wether it be putting your foot on the gas or turning on the rear defrost rpms drop and start jumping between 300-1k up and down.
As an added bonus, I got it to backfire through the carb a few times lol
Adjusted the carb a bit and fixed that.
And this same behavior occured with both my original computer, and the junkyard one. No difference in behavior whatsoever.
I mounted the orange ECU from the mancini kit, and then unfortunately it began to rain so I packed it in.
I swear the car has it out for me, every time I get a chance to work on it it rains and I only get to do a portion of what I want.
And yes I used the fancy red line, I also used an old rubber line and cut about an inch off both sides to make sure it didn't have brittle tips. I have been switching back and fourth since it was brought up and during all this testing, Did not make a difference which vac lines were used.
I am hoping that it will be a nice tommorow, but the weather report isn't looking great. If it is I will be back at it, and hopefully installing the mancini kit.
Spent an hour or two going over my ground connections, cleaning with a drill and wire bit. Dialectic grease applied
Freshly cleaned 2280, I spent last night rebuilding and putting it together, however there is no way for me to transfer over the idle control solenoid, no way to mount it? It has been put on the car, and tested today. No leaks, And yes I made sure to hook up the emissions lines correctly since the 2280 and 6280 the rear ports are swapped (pcv goes to left port instead of right when looking at front of carb)
BEFORE testing, I actually went up to the scrap yard again, and I found a fuel control computer, wasn't paying attention to what it came out of, it was on a 318, had the same labeling as mine, So I took that for shites and giggles.
Now the car does seem to run better with the 2280, smoother at its high idle, and seems like it starts quicker.
However same exact issue, under roughly 1k rpm or ANY load wether it be putting your foot on the gas or turning on the rear defrost rpms drop and start jumping between 300-1k up and down.
As an added bonus, I got it to backfire through the carb a few times lol
Adjusted the carb a bit and fixed that.
And this same behavior occured with both my original computer, and the junkyard one. No difference in behavior whatsoever.
I mounted the orange ECU from the mancini kit, and then unfortunately it began to rain so I packed it in.
I swear the car has it out for me, every time I get a chance to work on it it rains and I only get to do a portion of what I want.
And yes I used the fancy red line, I also used an old rubber line and cut about an inch off both sides to make sure it didn't have brittle tips. I have been switching back and fourth since it was brought up and during all this testing, Did not make a difference which vac lines were used.
I am hoping that it will be a nice tommorow, but the weather report isn't looking great. If it is I will be back at it, and hopefully installing the mancini kit.
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5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Update 2-
Got half of the wiring for the mancini kit done once the rain eased up. Ran into a problem, attached pics, hopefully it's legible.
Basically kit instructions are telling me that 88 and up vehicles don't have an under hood starter relay, and therefore I don't need a wire coming off of it to the positive on my coil.
But I looked, and I do have a starter relay, stock image from rockauto attached cause I forgot to take a picture, it's 3am here lol
But it's up mounted right next to what I assume is the master disconnect.
So....does anyone know if I still need that starter wire or no?
Got half of the wiring for the mancini kit done once the rain eased up. Ran into a problem, attached pics, hopefully it's legible.
Basically kit instructions are telling me that 88 and up vehicles don't have an under hood starter relay, and therefore I don't need a wire coming off of it to the positive on my coil.
But I looked, and I do have a starter relay, stock image from rockauto attached cause I forgot to take a picture, it's 3am here lol
But it's up mounted right next to what I assume is the master disconnect.
So....does anyone know if I still need that starter wire or no?
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Try the directions for no relay. All the wires should still be there somewhere but that relay is missing the spots you usually connect to.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
ALRIGHT, mancini kit fully installed, starts up and runs fantastic, or at least much better than it has ever since I've had it. A return to stock power as AHB would say.
A few things to note.
Car still needs to be timed and adjusted and whatnot. I don't have a second pair of hands today so I can't get at that.
I think I found the problem, distributor. Pickup and reluctor are rusty as hell. Picture attached though it may be hard to see, I certainly couldn't see it while it was in the car.
The mancini kit was great for the most part, the confusion with the wording for the starter wire install was a minor issue.
The bigger issue was the distributor wiring connectors. I will attach a picture but basically the connector would not go in properly. For it to go in I had to cut back some of the rubber on the connector.
When pushing in I could see the rubber "marshmellowing" out and blocking it from going in fully. I got it in as best I could and zip tied it together. Hopefully doesn't separate. Otherwise I may have to buy some quick disconnectors and replace that connector on both ends.
A few things to note.
Car still needs to be timed and adjusted and whatnot. I don't have a second pair of hands today so I can't get at that.
I think I found the problem, distributor. Pickup and reluctor are rusty as hell. Picture attached though it may be hard to see, I certainly couldn't see it while it was in the car.
The mancini kit was great for the most part, the confusion with the wording for the starter wire install was a minor issue.
The bigger issue was the distributor wiring connectors. I will attach a picture but basically the connector would not go in properly. For it to go in I had to cut back some of the rubber on the connector.
When pushing in I could see the rubber "marshmellowing" out and blocking it from going in fully. I got it in as best I could and zip tied it together. Hopefully doesn't separate. Otherwise I may have to buy some quick disconnectors and replace that connector on both ends.
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5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
And another update, with some follow up questions-
Had my helpers today so we got right to it.
The car has been timed, fast and curb idle have been set. We did semi intensive testing today to make sure all works. And even though it was semi risky we took it for a very short drive unplated, maybe 600m or so there and back, did that twice.
I tried stomping on it, full foot to the floor. Man these cars really had no get up and go huh? Mind you I may have to tune the carb a little more, so that parts is likely on me.
And here come the questions, with all this together, done and working. I started taking the LB wiring out. Had no problem there.
Thanks to another post and BUDW commenting, I knew I would still need the oil pressure switch and power to the choke thermostat.
So I De-pinned the LB wires from the main harness connector, only leaving the ops, choke thermostat and I'm not sure what this one is for but it's a pink wire and a small push on cap type connector. This worked great and meant I did not have to butcher the harness much at all.
That said, that leaves 3 connectors/sensors that I'm not sure if I need or what to do with them?
Car seems to run fine without them but just making sure.
The 02 sensor remains disconnected, as well as a 2 wire plug style connector behind the carb, and a second push on cap type connector that sits in front of the carb (bright lime green wire)
All of the wires for these 3 went directly to the LB side of the harness and didn't even interact with the main bulk connector. I'll take some pictures if necessary tommorow, just didn't think of it at the time.
I'm also assuming those solenoids on the firewall, that all the emissions lines run to is no longer of use since they won't be getting power from the LB harness. So can those be removed, along with the associated vac lines? That would include the EGR? (I have the EGR delete plate on for the time being until I know what to do with it)
And I know the flashers in these are a "keep a spare in the glovebox" kinda item.
Is there a higher quality or upgraded version that wouldn't require constant replacement?
On that note, I'm almost done. Once I know for sure what to do with these sensors, tune the carb a little better, put in a new flasher, and a new pair of horns, she is ready for the safety check.
So THANK YOU ALL
Had my helpers today so we got right to it.
The car has been timed, fast and curb idle have been set. We did semi intensive testing today to make sure all works. And even though it was semi risky we took it for a very short drive unplated, maybe 600m or so there and back, did that twice.
I tried stomping on it, full foot to the floor. Man these cars really had no get up and go huh? Mind you I may have to tune the carb a little more, so that parts is likely on me.
And here come the questions, with all this together, done and working. I started taking the LB wiring out. Had no problem there.
Thanks to another post and BUDW commenting, I knew I would still need the oil pressure switch and power to the choke thermostat.
So I De-pinned the LB wires from the main harness connector, only leaving the ops, choke thermostat and I'm not sure what this one is for but it's a pink wire and a small push on cap type connector. This worked great and meant I did not have to butcher the harness much at all.
That said, that leaves 3 connectors/sensors that I'm not sure if I need or what to do with them?
Car seems to run fine without them but just making sure.
The 02 sensor remains disconnected, as well as a 2 wire plug style connector behind the carb, and a second push on cap type connector that sits in front of the carb (bright lime green wire)
All of the wires for these 3 went directly to the LB side of the harness and didn't even interact with the main bulk connector. I'll take some pictures if necessary tommorow, just didn't think of it at the time.
I'm also assuming those solenoids on the firewall, that all the emissions lines run to is no longer of use since they won't be getting power from the LB harness. So can those be removed, along with the associated vac lines? That would include the EGR? (I have the EGR delete plate on for the time being until I know what to do with it)
And I know the flashers in these are a "keep a spare in the glovebox" kinda item.
Is there a higher quality or upgraded version that wouldn't require constant replacement?
On that note, I'm almost done. Once I know for sure what to do with these sensors, tune the carb a little better, put in a new flasher, and a new pair of horns, she is ready for the safety check.
So THANK YOU ALL
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Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
The pink wire up front with push connector is temp guage. The oxygen sensor can stay disconnected. The egr solenoids can go. I forget if it's in thus post or another one but the vacuum hose from it can go to another vacuum connector that comes out of the intake on that side and then to the carb. I can't remember if 88/89s have it but it's a vacuum switch that opens once the engine warms up so far. EGR shouldn't open on a cold engine.
Old rebuilt carbs are never a guarantee to work properly sometimes they can be worn out or have dirt or corrosion blocking little orfices in them. There's also tuning to the distributor that can be done. What's the timing set at? 8 btdc is a good starting point, depending on the distributor you might have to go down if it pings or up to 15 or so. You can try playing with that a bit to see if it improves performance.
Old rebuilt carbs are never a guarantee to work properly sometimes they can be worn out or have dirt or corrosion blocking little orfices in them. There's also tuning to the distributor that can be done. What's the timing set at? 8 btdc is a good starting point, depending on the distributor you might have to go down if it pings or up to 15 or so. You can try playing with that a bit to see if it improves performance.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Great, that helps. Any idea of the other push connector with the lime green wire, and the clip in 2 pin?
Guessing I don't need them since they ran straight to the LB computer but who knows.
And yes I believe it was AHBGURU who mentioned it, and while I was at the scrapyard I think I actually saw exactly what he meant.
Rear right of the intake vac tree, went to the front right of intake ccvs bottom port, and then top port of ccvs to EGR valve. At least that's how I saw it done on a 318 non LB ram, but who knows if it was tinkered with or whatnot.
It's timed to 7° btdc based on the under hood sticker.
It just seemed weird, very sluggish. Like going 20kmph then put my foot to the floor and it felt like it took 2 seconds before it really started to pick up. Could just need to be ran though. Hasn't had a good drive in years
Guessing I don't need them since they ran straight to the LB computer but who knows.
And yes I believe it was AHBGURU who mentioned it, and while I was at the scrapyard I think I actually saw exactly what he meant.
Rear right of the intake vac tree, went to the front right of intake ccvs bottom port, and then top port of ccvs to EGR valve. At least that's how I saw it done on a 318 non LB ram, but who knows if it was tinkered with or whatnot.
It's timed to 7° btdc based on the under hood sticker.
It just seemed weird, very sluggish. Like going 20kmph then put my foot to the floor and it felt like it took 2 seconds before it really started to pick up. Could just need to be ran though. Hasn't had a good drive in years
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Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Not sure what that connector would be, got a pic? Pretty much the only things you'll need now is temp, oil pressure switch, choke with the resistor looking doodad, alternator and ac if they are in that harness and whatever you are using for ignition.
Yeah running it more could help especially if there is old gas in the tank still.
Yeah running it more could help especially if there is old gas in the tank still.
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
Just a random thought, is the TDC mark on the balancer accurate. I mean, is indicated TDC actual engine TDC? Sometimes the outer ring can slip and TDC mark might actually be 10°ATDC, for example. Only mention it because you say it seems sluggish. One other thing, is the cam timing correct and not jumped a tooth maybe?
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Son of a.....I forgot to get a picture while I was there. I'll stop on my way to work and get one.
Temp, oil pressure switch and choke connector are the 3 things that I left in so that's perfect.
I'm not the one who did the actual timing, I was adjusting the dist. And today I realized, why did we let the guy with the worst eyes do the timing lol
So I took a look and timed it myself today, he had me lock it down yesterday, checked it, was at 6°
I pushed it up to 7-8° and then locked it down. I couldn't go for a drive this time but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the issue. The timing mark stays steady, it doesn't jump or jitter at all now compared to before the ignition swap.
That said I won't have any time to work on it until next week now. But as far as I'm concerned it drives well enough to go for it's safety check, only thing I know for sure it needs is a pair of horns as both don't work, and an alignment.
One quick question though, turn signals. With the key in the ON position, my right turn signal blinks at a normal rate. But my left turn signal is slow to blink. Only in the on position.
If I start the car, they both blink at the normal pace. Flasher and all bulbs front to back are brand new, and grounds have been cleaned
Is this normal?
Temp, oil pressure switch and choke connector are the 3 things that I left in so that's perfect.
I'm not the one who did the actual timing, I was adjusting the dist. And today I realized, why did we let the guy with the worst eyes do the timing lol
So I took a look and timed it myself today, he had me lock it down yesterday, checked it, was at 6°
I pushed it up to 7-8° and then locked it down. I couldn't go for a drive this time but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the issue. The timing mark stays steady, it doesn't jump or jitter at all now compared to before the ignition swap.
That said I won't have any time to work on it until next week now. But as far as I'm concerned it drives well enough to go for it's safety check, only thing I know for sure it needs is a pair of horns as both don't work, and an alignment.
One quick question though, turn signals. With the key in the ON position, my right turn signal blinks at a normal rate. But my left turn signal is slow to blink. Only in the on position.
If I start the car, they both blink at the normal pace. Flasher and all bulbs front to back are brand new, and grounds have been cleaned
Is this normal?
If both sides blinks slow in "on" position I would say that's normal, because the lower voltage makes the flasher work slower.
Sounds like you have different wattage between the left and right hand side. Are you sure the bulbs are the same?
My Aspen got the usual low alternator voltage at idle, annoying the hell out of me when the blinkers flashed slowly at red lights and such.
I ordered this electonic flasher from Rockauto and that cured the problem:
More Information for PETERSON MANUFACTURING 554
I've used it for six years now, the blinkers always flashes normally in every condition.
Sounds like you have different wattage between the left and right hand side. Are you sure the bulbs are the same?
My Aspen got the usual low alternator voltage at idle, annoying the hell out of me when the blinkers flashed slowly at red lights and such.
I ordered this electonic flasher from Rockauto and that cured the problem:
More Information for PETERSON MANUFACTURING 554
I've used it for six years now, the blinkers always flashes normally in every condition.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
These are the two connectors, pretty much dead center of the photos.
Sub03 no, only one (driver side) blinks slow with the key in the ON position.
But with the car started and running, both blink at a normal rate.
The original flasher I had in, did the same thing, that's why I replaced the flasher, thinking that was the problem. But flasher is a brand new electronic long life unit, Novita LL552
All bulbs are the same and correct, brand new and were replaced in pairs EXCEPT I forgot about the side markers, those have not been replaced, however they are working. I'll do those next.
Sub03 no, only one (driver side) blinks slow with the key in the ON position.
But with the car started and running, both blink at a normal rate.
The original flasher I had in, did the same thing, that's why I replaced the flasher, thinking that was the problem. But flasher is a brand new electronic long life unit, Novita LL552
All bulbs are the same and correct, brand new and were replaced in pairs EXCEPT I forgot about the side markers, those have not been replaced, however they are working. I'll do those next.
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Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about that disconnected one at the back it's a sensor for the computer. The front is temp sensor for the guage.
The timing number us only a starting point you can try going beyond 8 if it's not pinging and that could get you some better performance and mileage. The numbers are meaningless if that balancer ring has slipped. I haven't had that cause issues on a 318.
The timing number us only a starting point you can try going beyond 8 if it's not pinging and that could get you some better performance and mileage. The numbers are meaningless if that balancer ring has slipped. I haven't had that cause issues on a 318.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Good to know about the rear sensor, but I thought the pink wire push on was for the temp gauge?
Because the pink one is connected down below the alternator ground point, and my temp gauge is working.
The push on one pictured was the lime green wire that went straight to the LB harness/computer.
It would probably be best if I got it on the road first before trying to diagnose anything performance wise, otherwise I'll just end up chasing driveway gremlins.
I do need to figure out the turn signal issue, I'm sure it would still pass the safety check but just in case.
Only added information I just thought of, my third rear brake light is disconnected and I removed the holder and assembly, I do still have the parts. (Out of sight out of mind right?) The connector is just loose in the trunk with no bulb in it (I did not like how much it blocked my rear view) any chance this is causing a higher resistance on the driver side? I mean it's a brake light not a turn signal but from my understanding a lot of the electrical in these fmj cars are interconnected in some way.
Oh and NONE of these bulbs have been changed to LED they are all stock replacements
Because the pink one is connected down below the alternator ground point, and my temp gauge is working.
The push on one pictured was the lime green wire that went straight to the LB harness/computer.
It would probably be best if I got it on the road first before trying to diagnose anything performance wise, otherwise I'll just end up chasing driveway gremlins.
I do need to figure out the turn signal issue, I'm sure it would still pass the safety check but just in case.
Only added information I just thought of, my third rear brake light is disconnected and I removed the holder and assembly, I do still have the parts. (Out of sight out of mind right?) The connector is just loose in the trunk with no bulb in it (I did not like how much it blocked my rear view) any chance this is causing a higher resistance on the driver side? I mean it's a brake light not a turn signal but from my understanding a lot of the electrical in these fmj cars are interconnected in some way.
Oh and NONE of these bulbs have been changed to LED they are all stock replacements
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Sorry yeah that front one in pic can stay disconnected.
The LED bulbs could be doing it, they dont always play well with older cars. The slowness without the car running is probably a voltage issue like Sub03 said but it sounds like it's working when it's supposed to. The 3rd brake light won't make a difference to anything.
The LED bulbs could be doing it, they dont always play well with older cars. The slowness without the car running is probably a voltage issue like Sub03 said but it sounds like it's working when it's supposed to. The 3rd brake light won't make a difference to anything.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Alrighty, sounds good.
I never checked the license plate bulbs now that I think of it so maybe they are out.
Either way I'll check everything over and report back soon as I can.
I never checked the license plate bulbs now that I think of it so maybe they are out.
Either way I'll check everything over and report back soon as I can.
5thtimesthecharm
Well-Known Member
Well good thing I checked license plate bulbs, one was out. Would have failed the safety check around here.
Anyways replaced that, didn't help.
Played with the rear lights a bit. It's some kind of issue with the rear leftmost wiring or connector.
I twisted the wires just by chance and it flashed normally, twisted it back and it flashed slow again. So I back twisted it twice and plugged it back in. All good, both sides working fine now, so just a bad connector or wire. Easiest fix it could have been lol
Just waiting on my horn replacement that's on order and then it can go for the safety check
Anyways replaced that, didn't help.
Played with the rear lights a bit. It's some kind of issue with the rear leftmost wiring or connector.
I twisted the wires just by chance and it flashed normally, twisted it back and it flashed slow again. So I back twisted it twice and plugged it back in. All good, both sides working fine now, so just a bad connector or wire. Easiest fix it could have been lol
Just waiting on my horn replacement that's on order and then it can go for the safety check
