80CordobaLS
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- Sep 23, 2011
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That reminds me of the time when my Lean Burn was acting up. It caused a backfire and the timing chain skipped. Ugh.
Rough idle...
- Thread starter 53ryder
- Start date
53ryder
Well-Known Member
Spark plugs from hell huh?
Glenn
Glenn
53ryder
Well-Known Member
Checking out the vacuum hoses. So far have trimmed about 1/4 inch off the end of one hose because it has cracks in that end. Do these hoses just tend to fail at one end or the other? Or should I be looking at every inch of them for spilts as well?
BTW to get more specific, the car does idle a tad bit more smoother, doesn't shake as much as it did, but unfortunately it still shakes. Darn.
BTW to get more specific, the car does idle a tad bit more smoother, doesn't shake as much as it did, but unfortunately it still shakes. Darn.
Rubber is a good heat insulator - to a certian point. The carburator can get very hot after shutdown after a long drive. I "think" it is the constant heat and no where for the heat to go to, that gets to the hose ends - or at least my theory.
BudW
BudW
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
It's usually the ends unless they're melted or other damage in the middle. I've always thought it was being stretched over whatever nipple they're on and heat that makes the ends hard.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
I finally got tired of figuring out which vacuum hose was bad and just replaced them all at once
Kramer79
Well-Known Member
Have you confirmed all 8 are firing at idle? Maybe a misfire/bad plug wire/cap coil?
53ryder
Well-Known Member
Checked every plug while at idle. Every plug gave me a blue-ish spark. No yellow or orange colored sparks.
volare 1977
Well-Known Member
I wonder on the condition of the balancer. Sometimes the rubber breaks down and the ring can move on the hub.
The harmonic balancer ring rubber is most likely not good for any 40-year old car - but that will not cause a misfire.
On computer controlled cars (ie: air cleaner mounted) - there be no affect (with a slipped ring).
On the non-computer controlled cars, it will only affect the ignition timing setting - providing you set the timing based off of the mark on balancer (that has a slipped ring).
Either case, the misfire will be caused by something else.
Side note (A): the timing chain on both of my cars, are in bad shape. When checking the ignition timing, the timing light has about 15 (plus) degrees of variation, at engine idle, due to the chain bouncing around. It is my opinion that much timing chain play (timing bouncing around) will cause a misfire condition - but that is only my opinion. A backfire could disable either car.
Side note (B): your plugs look decent for the mileage - but I can tell you it is (past) time to change your valve guide seals. I would bet someone, a cold refreshing drink, that you have at least 4 broken valve guide seals and the rest might shatter upon removal. The good news is the valve seals are easy to replace (but having power brakes and/or A/C will slow you down).
BudW
volare 1977
Well-Known Member
Bud, what I was wondering if the outer ring slipped wouldn`t it cause a vibration/shake since many of the balancers had balance grooves or holes in the outer ring. Am i thinking wrong on this? I wasn`t reffering to a misfire but more of the running rough and shake. The OP was saying it was idling rough but was it actually diagnosed as a misfire?
Last edited:
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
318 is internally balanced so if the ring slips the main thing it will affect is timing.
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Slippage of the outer ring (in relation to the inner hub) is not that uncommon and the only thing it affects would be if you are trying to adjust ignition timing solely off of the balancer mark (which I don't use that method).
In extreme cases, the outer ring can come off of the hub and rattle against the crank pulley. The engine will still start and run - but without that balancer ring in-place you could end up with a broken crankshaft.
You are correct about the engine balancing being affected - but not that much an issue on a 318. 360's (all) and late 340/400/440's (with a cast crankshaft) will be more of an issue with vibration - but even without the outer ring in place, that will not cause a engine misfire.
The harmonic balancer is a misunderstood part. The thicker/heaver the balancer (think 426 Hemi) is, the far better for the engine. A car will run without a balancer or with a skinny/thin balancer - but you will break the crankshaft in little time. It has to do firing pulses causing a rapid acceleration of the crankshaft then rapid deceleration with a piston is moving up for compression stroke. Think about playing with a wooden (kids) toy that has square (or triangle) wheels. The axle speed will not be constant when a square wheel rotates on the ground. The 426 Hemi's, 361/413 industrial engines and many of older 440 Imperial's use the thick/heavy balancer (the Hemi version is different) - but the crank pulley(s) are different because of spacing. Sense it costs more to make a heavy balancer - is the reason not a lot were made.
The thickness of the rubber and distance of rubber ring from center of crankshaft allows of the correct amount of deflection for crankshaft acceleration/deceleration. The problem is the rubber wasn't bonded to the metal like the newer balancers are - so over time, the outer ring slips (rotational).
When inspecting a balancer (before installing one) be sure to check the rubber for major cracks or to see if it is "oozing" out of its grove. If so, discard yours and get another balancer. I "think" pretty much all new balancers made in last 25 years use bonded rubber. I wouldn't go through the trouble to change a balancer that has major cracks in rubber (or oozing out) - unless the balancer is already removed for something else.
I have only seen three balancer rings come off. One was on a 400k mile 318 and others were on non-Mopar's.
Somewhere, deep in my garage, I have a mopar balancer (360, I think) that is missing a 3 inch (7.5 cm) stretch of rubber (between the rings) and you can not get the outer ring to pull off of it by using your hands. I can move it using a pry bar, though. It is one of odd things I ran across and kept - for some odd reason).
BudW
In extreme cases, the outer ring can come off of the hub and rattle against the crank pulley. The engine will still start and run - but without that balancer ring in-place you could end up with a broken crankshaft.
You are correct about the engine balancing being affected - but not that much an issue on a 318. 360's (all) and late 340/400/440's (with a cast crankshaft) will be more of an issue with vibration - but even without the outer ring in place, that will not cause a engine misfire.
The harmonic balancer is a misunderstood part. The thicker/heaver the balancer (think 426 Hemi) is, the far better for the engine. A car will run without a balancer or with a skinny/thin balancer - but you will break the crankshaft in little time. It has to do firing pulses causing a rapid acceleration of the crankshaft then rapid deceleration with a piston is moving up for compression stroke. Think about playing with a wooden (kids) toy that has square (or triangle) wheels. The axle speed will not be constant when a square wheel rotates on the ground. The 426 Hemi's, 361/413 industrial engines and many of older 440 Imperial's use the thick/heavy balancer (the Hemi version is different) - but the crank pulley(s) are different because of spacing. Sense it costs more to make a heavy balancer - is the reason not a lot were made.
The thickness of the rubber and distance of rubber ring from center of crankshaft allows of the correct amount of deflection for crankshaft acceleration/deceleration. The problem is the rubber wasn't bonded to the metal like the newer balancers are - so over time, the outer ring slips (rotational).
When inspecting a balancer (before installing one) be sure to check the rubber for major cracks or to see if it is "oozing" out of its grove. If so, discard yours and get another balancer. I "think" pretty much all new balancers made in last 25 years use bonded rubber. I wouldn't go through the trouble to change a balancer that has major cracks in rubber (or oozing out) - unless the balancer is already removed for something else.
I have only seen three balancer rings come off. One was on a 400k mile 318 and others were on non-Mopar's.
Somewhere, deep in my garage, I have a mopar balancer (360, I think) that is missing a 3 inch (7.5 cm) stretch of rubber (between the rings) and you can not get the outer ring to pull off of it by using your hands. I can move it using a pry bar, though. It is one of odd things I ran across and kept - for some odd reason).
BudW
LSM360
Well-Known Member
Wow those definitely needed changing or at least cleaning but best changed, could've been tiny crack in porcelin too.
53ryder
Well-Known Member
I should have done this sooner! Finally found my timing gun yesterday afternoon. This morning checked timing at idle. The sticker on the radiator says '7' degrees before top-dead-center. See photo. The timing gun revealed current timing is at about 12-14 degrees after top-dead-center. It looks like I need to re-adjust the timing. Bear with me please! Which way should I turn the distributor to get the timing mark back to around 7 degrees BTC? Clockwise or counter-clockwise? Is there a bolt that supposedly holds the distributor in place that I will need to loosen to make adjustment to? Could you give me a general idea of where the bolt will located? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Glenn
Glenn
